As of October 2008, FSANZ will take over control from the different states the responsibility for public health and safety with regards to Food Standards. Currently all states have laws that prohibit the sale of raw milk for consumption. FSANZ is looking into changing the laws and allowing sale of raw milk and raw milk products. But we need to tell them, loud and clear how we want it. It has taken a decade of lobbying from the likes of Will Stud and no doubt will take another decade for another opportunity to be part of this process. Let’s say what we want now.
I propose, dear Nourishers, we do a group blogging project together to create a submission from the Nourished Community and to gather the resources readers and individuals can use to build their own submission.
Please let us know, by commenting below, which of the following issues you’d like to research and/or write for us. Be aware FSANZ ask for all studies and facts to be referenced.
Proposal P1007 - Primary Production and Processing Requirements for Raw Milk
Calls for:
- national consistency - the Code currently allows for the States and Territories to individually permit the production for sale of unpasteurised milk and milk products (excluding cheese);
- consistent requirements for domestic and imported products - the Code currently allows the sale of specific imported cheeses but not for the equivalent domestic production;
- reference to legislation of other countries - permissions for imported cheeses refers to legislation of other countries this needs to be changed
- Applications received by FSANZ to allow the import and sale of raw milk products; and
- risks to public health and safety.
Of course, they say the risk to public health and safety trumps all other concerns.
Submissions Deadline September 17, 6pm Canberra time.
Submissions must be made in writing and should clearly be marked with the word ‘Submission’ and quote the correct project number and name to submissions@foodstandards.gov.au.
Please let us know which project below you’d like to attend to (there can be more than one blogger on a section). You can use the discussion paper from the FSANZ site. Please, if you take part in this project, resolve to finish it by September 10 so we can get the whole submission together from the “Nourished Magazine Community” and readers can copy the basic ideas they wish to submit in their own words to FSANZ.
Project 1: How to make sure raw milk products are safe.
The discussion paper “FSANZ will determine if there is a scientific basis to develop appropriate measures to manage any risk to public health and safety.”
Safety labels are one idea, but really we should dig up all the evidence about grass fed milk not carrying much pathogenic bacteria.
Also FSANZ want to set:
• a limit for Campylobacter is specified for raw milk unripened cheeses (moisture content >50% with pH>5.0);
• limits for Listeria monocytogenes and Salmonella are specified for all raw milk cheese;
• a limit for Escherichia coli is specified for all cheese (including raw milk cheese); and
• limits for Campylobacter, Coagulase positive staphylococci, coliforms, Escherichia coli, Listeria monocytogenes, Salmonella and Standard Plate Count are specified for butter made from unpasteurised milk.
Since California Raw milk enthusiasts just had such a big win with their government trying to slyly bring the levels of bacteria down to unachievable limits, we should use this new legislation as an example
FSANZ says “The criteria for pasteurisation of milk was historically based on the destruction of Mycobacterium bovis, the causative agent of bovine tuberculosis which, in the past, was also responsible for causing tuberculosis infections in humans. Current time temperature requirements for milk pasteurisation are based on the destruction of Coxiella burnetii, the causative agent of Q fever in humans and the most heat resistant vegetative pathogen found in milk.”
Haven’t we proven that animal borne TB is not the same as human TB? And haven’t we eradicated TB in Australia?
FSANZ says:” In countries where raw milk products are routinely available, they have frequently been implicated in foodborne illness. Internationally over the last 30 years, raw cow and goat milk has been associated with over 50 outbreaks of food borne illness involving 1051 cases and 38 deaths. Over the same time period, raw milk cheeses produced from either cow, goat or sheep milk, were implicated in a similar number of outbreaks (n = 56), although were more serious in their impact. More than double the number of people (n = 2691) were affected than in raw milk outbreaks, with 56 deaths reported.
Despite limited permissions and availability of raw milk products in Australia there have been a number of reported cases of foodborne illness attributed to their consumption.”
There is quite a sum of evidence that counters this, infact implicating pasteurised milk and cooked food over raw milk.
Can we negate these claims?
FSANZ says,”Animal health issues other than those that specifically impact upon human health via foodborne transmission are not part of FSANZ’s responsibility and will not be considered in this assessment.” They need to be called to point that an animals overall health does indeed affect the viability of the milk as a innoculant for pathogenic bacteria.
Project 2: Farming and production requirements of Raw Milk
FSANZ are working under the assumption that there is three stages to the supply of milk; farm, transport to production facility, transport again to retail store (page 8). Remind FSANZ that this is not the only way milk or milk products can be provided. We can use herdshares and knock out at least one of these stages. We can also encourage re-localisation of raw milk: straight from the farm to the store.
Tell FSANZ that raw milk drinkers need a certification to protect them. They need to know their milk is coming from animals farmed in a specific manner. This project needs to science to back up Mark McAffee’s Raw milk Certification in the US.
The recently released Raw Milk Production Handbook is a great guide for this.
Project 3: Raw Milk Consumers
FSANZ says, “Anecdotal evidence suggests that some individuals consume raw drinking milk. Additionally it is suggested that some consumers may have perceptions of food risks inconsistent with scientific risk assessments.”
Tell FSANZ about raw milk drinkers, how much we know about the scientific risk of doing so, how much we know about current dairy practises and how we don’t just want to drink any old raw milk. We want a certification (again see Mark McAfee’s raw milk certification) to ensure the farms we get our raw milk from are run in a way to ensure our safety.
Tell them our choice to eat from local farms is not just a whim (reading their discussion paper, that is exactly what they think) but a well thought out strategy built on a desire to improve the environmental impact our eating creates as well as our need to create food security for our local communities.
Project 4: Category 3 Milk Product Re-legalisation
Here are the three categories FSANZ have created:
“Category 1 Products in which pathogens are eliminated eg pasteurised dairy foods and hard cheeses” and “Category 2 Products where pathogens may survive but do not grow”, eg Rochfort cheese. Are currently available in Australia.
“Category 3 Products where pathogens survive and grow”, supposedly, are being reassessed.
We need to give FSANZ the evidence that milk from grass fed cows, properly cooled and packaged does not grow pathogenic bacteria. Anecdotal evidence of eating soured milk and never once, getting sick as well as scientific evidence (see RealMilk.com) will help them change the status of this category.
“Category 3 products are those where the processing step(s) that are applied would not reduce pathogens to an acceptable level. In general, if pathogens are present, they would be expected to multiply during manufacture. This category would include products such as raw drinking milk including raw goat’s milk. This category is likely to include high moisture content cheeses.”
Demand, again, a certification of raw milk, which ensures the herds from which our milk comes from are treated in accordance to the best husbandry practice for raw milk.
Since this category includes soft cheeses (sneaky) like brie, we need to find some evidence that they are not hazardous also.
Project 5: Villify Pasteurisation
Prove that pasteurisation of milk products is, in fact, a major cause of many modern diseases. Write about homogenisation and it’s recent links to heart disease.
Prove that vital components in dairy foods are lost in the processes above.
Again, please include scientific references.
Project 6: Case Studies
Gather information from Nourished readers about their health changes since using raw milk. Abby Eagle has already gathered some.
Particularly FSANZ asks:
Consumers may wish to provide information on matters such as:
* What raw milk products do you consume, why, and how much?
* Do you perceive much demand for raw milk products in your community?
* Is there a demand for some products in particular for example, domestically produced raw milk cheese?
Project 7: Raw Milk Certification
Tell FSANZ that raw milk drinkers need a certification to protect them. They need to know their milk is coming from animals farmed in a specific manner. This project needs to science to back up Mark McAffee’s Raw milk Certification in the US.
This Project is open to bloggers and readers alike. If you don’t have a Nourished Blog, feel free to use your own. If you don’t have a blog at all, use the comments section below to add you part.
Please let the rest of the community which project you choose so we can choose to work with you or choose another project. As you can tell, there are cross overs with each project so helping each other with data and research would be a great thing. Comment here or write on your blog with any info you think the rest of us could use.
I know we all are busy but realistically, dear Nourishers, this is a ‘once in a childhood’ opportunity to set things straight. Any who have children and want to have children can consider this legislation vital to the health of the next generation.
About the Author...
A Super Hero and one of many who have realised their true calling as saviors of humanity, healers of our connection with Nature and creators of Heaven on Earth. The Nourisher's gift is the re-spiritualisation of the 'process of recreation' we call eating. Mother of three Super Heroes in training and wife to her God incarnate, The Nourisher hails from the place of feminine healing, Byron Bay, Australia. She gathers together Life Creators from all over the globe at NourishedMagazine.com.au
Aug 14th, 2008 at 10:43 pm
Haven’t we proven that animal borne TB is not the same as human TB? And haven’t we eradicated TB in Australia?
Can you say more about that? Are you saying that humans don’t get TB from animals? There is certainly TB still in humans in NZ, but it’s a disease of poverty and overcrowded housing.
Aug 14th, 2008 at 10:54 pm
This is an excellent opportunity for the public to voice their opinion and support in favour of real milk legalisation and production in Australia.
FSANZ operates as a mediating ground between public, industry and government stakeholders. In the past, the general public have not always utilised the opportunity to voice their vote. It’s a difficult website to sieve through, and even the name sounds a little odd (FSANZ?)……
The demand for Real Milk is developing with the smooth flow of civil disobience and re-orientation throughout Australia as we speak. A suitable model for production, certification, legalisation and encouragement is what we are all crying out for. .
Let’s hear it for the milkers!
Arabella
Aug 15th, 2008 at 10:05 am
Kate, in the Raw Milk Production Handbook Tim Wightman says “Bovine TB is not the same kind of TB that humans can contract. In the past there was considerable debate as to whether the bovine form of TB is transmissible to humans by drinking milk from an infected cow. Most who have carefully looked into this problem have concluded that it is not, however most agriculture officials believe that humans can contract TB by drinking milk from a TB-contaminated cow.”
He refers to an article on the WAPF site written by Ted F. Beals, MS, MD.
Ted quotes a study in the United Kingdom for the period 1990-2003: “there was an average of 7,000 cases of human tuberculosis reported each year. Between 0.5-1.5 percent of those cases which had confirmed cultures were caused by M. bovis… contracted in other countries… In this 13-year study, only one case of human M. bovis was determined to be acquired from an animal source in the United Kingdom.”
ref: del la Rua-Domenech, R. 2006. Human Mycobacterium bovis infection in the United Kingdom: Incidence, risks, control measures and review of the zoonotic aspects of bovine tuberculosis. Tuberculosis 86(2):77-109.
ALSO
“with human tuberculosis—that nearly all intestinal infections are not the result of ingesting food contaminated with the bacteria—is explained because these intestinal infections are not the primary site of infection but are the result of swallowing pulmonary secretions when the primary pulmonary tuberculosis nodules break down and spill bacteria into the mucus from the lungs. And these people have conspicuous lung nodules from their primary infection.”
Many still hold the belief that human intestinal tuberculosis comes from drinking milk from TB infected cows because this was assumed before the disease was fully understood.
These studies:
# Ameni, G., Bonnet, P. and Tibbo, M. A 2003. Cross-sectional Study of Bovine Tuberculosis in Selected Dairy Farms in Ethiopia. The International Journal of Applied Research in Veterinary Medicine 1(4).
# Perez, A., Forteis, A., Meregalli, S., Lopez, B. and Ritacco, V. 2002. Estudio de Mycobacterium bovis en leche mediante metodos bacteriologicos y reaccion en cadena de la polimerasa. Rev. Argent Microbiol 34(1)45-51.
# Fujimura Leite, C, et al. 1989. Isolation and Identification of Mycobacteria from Livestock Specimens and Milk Obtained in Brazil. Mem Inst Oswaldo Cruz, Rio de Janeiro, 98(3):319-323.
prove that “the transmission of bovine tuberculosis from milk to a human would only occur under a set of extremely uncommon circumstances:
* If the infection originated in the cow’s milk, the cow would need to have active tuberculosis in the udder (i.e., tuberculous mastitis—an extraordinarily rare form of the disease and not to be confused with common mastitis), or tuberculous ulcers on her teats. Both conditions would be apparent to a vigilant farmer.
* A farmer with tuberculosis could contaminate milk during handling, but the farmer would need to have active disease and would likely be noticeably sick.
* It is theoretically possible for an uninfected farmer to physically contaminate milk with secretions from an infected cow, but those secretions would only contain the bacteria if that cow had active lung or throat disease.
* It is theoretically possible for milk to be contaminated in the dairy parlor from airborne particles originating from a cow with active tuberculosis, from either the cow being milked or from one that had distributed infected secretions in the parlor in the past.
* And theoretically it is possible for tubercle bacteria from a cow with intestinal tuberculosis shedding into manure to be the source of fecal contamination in milk.”
ALSO
“In a contemporary analysis in the United Kingdom, thorough clinical examinations were performed on 138 people who had close contact with herds infected with bovine tuberculosis or who drank raw milk from those herds. No cases of bovine tuberculosis were found in these people.”
ref: Smith, G. et al. 2001. Results of follow-up of human contacts of bovine tuberculosis in cattle during 1993-7 in North Staffordshire. Epidemio. Infect 127(1):87-9.
Ron Schmid in his “Untold Story of Milk” also does a wonderful job at debunking the medical myths around TB. It is a very complex disease and testing positive for it does not necessarily mean it is active in the body.
Of course, we’d want to avoid drinking milk from TB infected cows because they obviously aren’t in tip top shape so their milk would be less nutrient dense than what we’d like so avoiding TB infected cows is a great idea but not for the reasons FSANZ is stating.
This is why we need certification that ensures our cows are regularly tested for such bacteria.
As for TB in NZ slums (so sad there is such a thing in our very rich countries): Mark Purdey indicated that TB is related to excess iron in the diet of cattle. I’m not sure what would be the case in humans but I do believe that a well Nourished human does not fall prey to pathogenic bacteria.
Aug 19th, 2008 at 7:54 am
I believe that most of the TB in humans in New Zealand is from human contact with humans who are infected maybe overseas visitors. Not everyone in contact gets the disease which shows that there must be factors protecting some people. I have been in close contact twice in my life and have not succumbed.
Anecdotally as farmers farming in a TB endemic area and us and our children drinking our own raw milk even our herd never got TB. I did tackle vets about TB and they assured me that it was highly unlikely for us humans to get TB, however vets are apparently vaccinated to prevent them getting it as vets are known to contract TB more often. That could be from other animals like deer I guess or from the fact that the bacterium in the faeces is around and active for some while until destroyed by sunlight. There is also avian TB and of course infected possums.
There is more risk of other pathogens in raw milk and people need to know the risk for themselves and make an informed decision. We provided information on these hazards on our website.
We have lots of letters from our shareholders re health improvements if these would be useful, it is NZ but we will be affected by Australian decisions. It is still legal to buy raw milk from farm dairy in NZ.
Aug 19th, 2008 at 9:35 am
I am doing a survey of people who consume raw milk products. Mostley in my area it will be dairy farmers who drink thier own heards milk. My asumpsion is that all farmers drink their own farm milk and dont get sick so what is the problam. Is all milk tested raw by humans on farm daily before it is sent off to the larger dairies?
some questions I will ask are :- Do you drink raw milk from your Farm?
Does your Family/friends/relatives drink raw milk from your farm?
How long have you been drinking raw milk from your farm?
Have you/family/friends/relatives become sick from drinking raw milk from your farm?
Do you drink pasturised milk?
how many animals in your heard?
I am open to suggestions re other questions that might be relivant to thi survey/
Aug 19th, 2008 at 12:33 pm
Great idea Luke. What about asking them if they’d consider being capitalized and earning more by selling their cattle and managing a herdshare? Would they consider converting to organic/biodynamic (especially if the process can be capitalized by their herdshare co-operative)?
Aug 19th, 2008 at 10:11 pm
Thanks Joanna and Susan. So it sounds like humans can get TB from animals, but that that risk can be significantly minimised.
Overcrowded housing goes hand in hand with poverty and poor nutrition and stress. Makes sense that people would be more susceptible when exposed to TB under those conditions.
Susan, what’s your website?
Aug 20th, 2008 at 9:26 am
Kate the website is realmilk.co.nz, If you check out realmilk.com it also give lots of information needed for these projects.
Aug 21st, 2008 at 7:37 pm
Thanks :-)
Aug 22nd, 2008 at 11:45 am
This is really good. Would my contribution on this blog help the FSANZ to decide to allow good raw milk to be sold?
My family and I have been taking raw milk for the past year, and have been thriving on it.
My husband was lactose intolerant, and my children would get red patches on their faces and bodies on pasteurised milk.
Because of that, we resorted to the less favourable soy drinks and rice and oat milk drinks. we have since read articles which talk about the harm of too much soy. the scientific reasons and terms escape me…. but we, as a family, are now truly convinced of the benefits of drinking good quality raw milk.
Since we’ve been on raw milk for the last year, we had NO recurring problems.
and I learned that it was due to the altered states of the different proteins in pasteurised milk, amongst other things.
When we run out of raw milk, we have no choice but to revert to the regular Pasteurised ones, and I can tell you that to the whole family, such milk now looks extremely artificial to us.
We consume, as a family, 4L of raw milk a week, and would appreciate regular and available supplies.
We suggest the recommendations of experts,such as the NourishedMagazine contributors and all their resources, be heeded to.
i hope this will help to make raw milk readily available to the public.
Aug 26th, 2008 at 8:03 pm
According to Slow Food Melbourne, the best thing to do here is for each and every concerned individual to send an email submission. FSANZ is also counting each individual submission as one vote, but a group contribution still only counts as one submission/vote, as it is not tallied by number of petitioners in the group. If everyone here sent in an email it would have a better chance of determining the outcome by using strength in numbers.
On behalf of the Raw Milk Cheesemakers, Will Studd has created a template that can be copied and pasted into an email to send to FSANZ, making it simple for anyone to participate. At SOLE Mama we are encouraging everyone we know to submit an email to FSANZ, so have posted Will’s template on our website.
I urge everyone, regardless of whether they have anything to do with the cheese industry to visit our website to copy and email the submission in and also urge people to send a separate email in support of raw milk for drinking.
Most crucial is that we may not have this chance again for another 10years. It is an opportunity for each individual to effect law and to tell legislators that we will not stand for being told what we can or cannot consume. To speak up in this case is a way of preserving centuries of tradition, practices and artisanal skill from being eradicated by bureacracy, technology and by corporations who dress up greed in the guise of telling us what is best for our health. PLEASE ACT NOW!
Aug 28th, 2008 at 8:49 pm
Hi. This is great news!
Our family of 3 Adults and 1 toddler have been drinking raw milk for several years. We drink on adverage 5 x 2L bottles a week between us. Have done a bit of research into the benefits etc, but basically it just makes a whole lot of sense - any food product you boil will loose vitamins. I would never buy heat treated salad products because of a small health risk. That said I do not discount that there is a risk, it is important to me to know the cows are raised and milked in a clean environment.
The raw milk we consume tastes great and does not cause the irritable bowel symtoms that I have after drinking regular milk (I have been drinking soy milk for years because of this). Also, I want to add, in all the time we have been drinking raw milk none of us has had any ill health effects from it.
I am very excited about the prospect of it being legallised, and regulated. Also about the prospect of being able to buy unpasturised cheese, butter, etc.
Helen.
Aug 29th, 2008 at 3:39 pm
Thanks Helen and Lena, we’ll include your testimonials in the submission. It would be great if you could just flick a quick email to the submissions people as well. Numbers talk.
submissions@foodstandards.gov.au.
Aug 30th, 2008 at 11:50 pm
Raw milk is milk as GOD intended. Milk that is in it’s purest unadulterated state and also at it’s healthiest state.
Pasteurisation kills more than just germs. It destroys valuable enzymes and vitamins and minerals and harden the calcium which in turn makes it harder for our bodies to utilise.
However the way, I believe to overcome any risks is to first ensure that the milk is from cows that are healthy and disease free and that milk is free of hormones, antibiotics and from cows that are absolutely disease free.
The cows must also be allowed to roam and graze on open, clean pastures and not grain fed exclusively.
Their living conditions too must be of high, clean quality vital to their health and ours
Maybe they could establish regular testing of the cows of those dairies that are supplying the raw milk and ensure that, hygiene, health, living conditions of the cows, their diet, are all adhered to. They could also test their manures too for any diseases.
Clean healthy cows give clean healthy raw milk, it makes sense. A dirty disease riddled cow will of course give dirty milk, so logically the thing to do is make sure that the animals are in the best of health, in order to ensure that the milk is the best.
The milk should also be certified raw and clean, not heat treated even in the slightest and definitelyh ave no preservatives. Just be 100% raw milk, straight from the cow to us with no processing nothing in between..
Sep 1st, 2008 at 1:01 pm
Hi there!
I read your emails with interest. I am a cheesemaker myself and produce Swiss Style cheese on the Sunshine Coast under the name FROMART (check http://www.fromart.com.au). I grew up with Raw Milk cheeses, since about 90% of all cheeses produced in Switzerland are made from Raw milk. So for me, I do not understand why making raw milk cheeses can be such a big thing for the food authorithies.
We do make cheese from pasteurized milk, but I already would have gotten approval from the QLD SAFE FOOD Authorities to produce raw milk cheese, however a hard cheese type such as the GRUYERE only. This means I would have had to heat up the curd to at least 48 degrees before filling the hoops, and then keep the cheese for at least 6 months at a temperature higher than 10 degrees. That is all easy to do: BUT NOW the big JOKE comes. To legally proof that the cheese is safe, I would have to test 5 samples of each batch produced, which would come to about 750 DOLLARS for a batch of 150 kg of cheese! Wow, how would I be able to sell this cheese? In a country, where distributors take a very big $ amount for every kg of cheese being sold, the manufacturer of raw milk cheese would have to find a VERY CLEVER way of selling directly to the end consumer, otherwise it would be financially not viable to do it, I think.
Then for RAW MILK CHEESE, it is absolutely crucial that the quality of the raw milk and the time between milking the cows and turning the milk into cheese would be a short as possible. In Switzerland, this time is probably between 30 min and an hour. This would probably mean that only cheese manufacturers with their own herd of cows would be able to make it. Then again, a raw milk cheese producer would then have to rely on a very loyal network of milk suppliers and customers who buy direct everything the factory can produce.
To offer raw milk cheese to our customers, we decided in the meantime to import raw milk cheese from our friends cheese factories in Switzerland. These are mainly semi hard and hard cheeses, that are matured for a minimum of 6 months and we further mature them here on the Sunshine Coast before selling them to our customers. I will be watching the development re FSANZ and food testing requirements very closely and would be certainly very interested in making the raw milk cheese myself. But as long as they basically keep every small player out of the market (and the big ones will never do it anyway, because it then needs skilled cheesemakers who can do more than just press a button in the production) by applying certain “OVER EXPENSIVE” testing hurdles, it will be an illusion to expect that a lot of small boutique cheese makers will get into raw milk products.
Last but not least: I have a very clear opinion: when it comes to HEALTH and FLAVOR, there is nothing better than RAW MILK PRODUCTS, whether it be cheese or milk for drinking. 6 Million people in Switzerland consume raw milk cheese every day and they all seems to be prety healthy over there, so why should it not be possible in Australia??
Regards
Christian
Sep 1st, 2008 at 5:36 pm
Hi could you substantiate the following claim with said evidence please
“We need to give FSANZ the evidence that milk from grass fed cows, properly cooled and packaged does not grow pathogenic bacteria”
How does it not allow the growth of pathogenic bacteria? Are you implying that the milk is free of pathogens or that there is some component of the milk that, should there be pathogenic cells present, inhibits their growth?
thanks
Sep 2nd, 2008 at 2:41 am
Our family must purchase raw milk and cheese if we are to consume any dairy at all since our daughter has a dairy sensitivity that leads to full-body eczema with pastueurized milk but not with raw milk products. Our local natural market has just started to carry raw milk again after 2 years and we are there every week to buy it! All we need is more education and less fear… and happy cows.
Sep 2nd, 2008 at 9:34 am
Esta, I think this is the study I was referring to. Will do further checking though.
Doyle and Roman, Prevalence and survival of Campylobacter jejuni in unpasteurized milk.(Appl Environ Microbiol. 1982;44(5):1154-9) found that C. jejuni cannot grow in milk, and that if they inoculate milk with massive amounts of it, it survives twice as long in sterile milk as in raw milk.
I got this from an article on RealMilk.com:
Here.
and this..
Hutchinson and others (1985) tried blaming raw milk for an outbreak of C. jejuni in a village where virtually everyone drank raw milk from a single farm. They found the organism in rubbish heaps and watering holes, but not in the milk or milk filters. Frustrated with this result, they cultured samples right on the farm instead of carrying them in sterile containers to a sterile working space in the laboratory as is usually done, and the milk and milk filters proved contaminated. They claimed the reason they had to culture the milk on the farm was because the C. jejuni was unable to tolerate the “natural antibacterial effect of fresh milk” for the several hours it took to transport the milk to the
lab, but offered no explanation of how the milk could have gotten anyone sick if all the C. jejuni within it would die within hours of milking. When they tried quantifying two of the positive samples after some unspecified time, the milk turned up negative. When they tried subtyping two other samples soon after collection, they failed because the bacteria could not survive long enough for them to finish the procedure.
Warner (1986) found C. jejuni in bile samples from cows culled from their herds, but found no C. jejuni in milk filter samples, despite the visible presence of fecal contamination, giving indirect support to the idea that the “natural antibacterial effect of fresh milk” may have killed any C. jejuni that would have found its way into the milk filters.
Over and over again, investigators blame C. jejuni outbreaks on raw milk despite negative milk samples. In explaining how certified raw milk could cause C. jejuni infection without being contaminated with C. jejuni, Potter (1983) wrote the following:
C. jejuni has been cultured with relative facility from a number of different environments, including human and animal feces, bile, poultry meat, and water. However, despite the frequent association of raw milk with C. jejuni infections, attempts to recover the organism from milk have usually been unsuccessful.
Sep 2nd, 2008 at 9:39 am
Christian, welcome to the discussion, your expertise and experience is very valuable. You said the extra testing the government has asked you to do for raw cheese production would cost “750 DOLLARS for a batch of 150 kg of cheese!”. How much per kilo would that put the cheese (including postage)?
Sep 2nd, 2008 at 11:22 am
I feel it’s vital that people who choose to buy real raw milk cheese and butter, be allowed to do so legally. It’s totally ridiculous that well known healthy products keep getting taken off the market because the multi national companies want to control the market.
It seems like everything is on a speedy production line these days, with no time to properly keep the nutritional value in: quickly produce and pasteurize milk, grow big fat tasteless fruit and vegetables that look perfect but do nothing for your health, feed chickens hormones and stuff them in tiny cages so that they too produce too quickly to remain healthy and the list goes on. It’s disgusting really and it needs to stop.
As a consumer, I have seen great benefits in my own health since eating and drinking real raw milk products. I have noticed a huge difference not only in my digestion and energy levels, but also my hair, skin, teeth, eyes. It’s quite amazing really because I cannot drink pasteurized and homogenised milk without getting a very upset stomach.
There are just too many proven scientific facts to ignore. It’s time to make real raw milk products legally available!!
Sep 2nd, 2008 at 11:30 am
Christian, I like your passion. Yes, I myelf would love to try raw milk cheese. So far the only raw milk produce I have had is the raw milk. Raw jersey milk is divine. My kids drink it. We buy it from the local healthfood shop here. Very pricey though and often not enough bottles by the time I get there.
I have only ever found the french roquerfort cheese here to be raw, but at 90 bucks a kilo.
Sep 2nd, 2008 at 2:14 pm
Thanks Nourisher for the reference. I have now read Doyle and Roman, Prevalence and survival of Campylobacter jejuni in unpasteurized milk.(Appl Environ Microbiol. 1982;44(5):1154-9) and agree that C.jejuni did not survive in the raw milk however it also did not survive in the sterile milk. The rate of inactivation was virtually the same with the only difference being the lag time before inactivation began in the sterile milk. Yes that translates to C.jejuni surviving for 14 days in sterile milk as opposed to 8-9 days in raw milk but scientific results must be reported with care and the whole picture presented not just the results that support an argument. Also C.jejuni is not a particularly hardy pathogen. There are others (E.coli, L.monocytogenes, Salmonella etc) which are hardier. I am soon to publish results that show L.monocytogenes surviving for over 6 months in a semi-hard raw milk cheese stored at 4C. The Australian Dairy industry recognises the risk that it may only take one single hardy pathogenic cell in a raw product to cause wide spread food-borne illness and subsequently decimate the whole industry in this country. That is why the big players are being conservative. Since mandatory pasteurisation was passed there hasn’t been a notable outbreak of food borne illness related to pasteurised dairy products in Australia- OzFoodNet supports this. Consumer confidence rates higher unfortunately than the palate.
I believe raw milk cheeses, in particular, can be made safely but as Christian mentioned every batch would need to be tested to ensure its safety and to ensure the economic viability of the whole industry and all stakeholders, big and small. I also believe that raw milk and raw milk products may have additional health benefits and definitely have enhanced flavour to the pasteurised equivalent but I know as a microbiologist I feel more confident eating pasteurised cheese than raw….for now.
Sep 4th, 2008 at 9:30 am
Hello Esta can you please explain to me the difference between ” hasn’t been a notable outbreak of food born illness ” and ,hasn’t been an outbreak of food born illness , I know as a plumber I some times dont feel confident Understanding the language of a microbiologist. I welcome evidence being provided here thankyou.
Sep 4th, 2008 at 11:20 am
“I am soon to publish results that show L.monocytogenes surviving for over 6 months in a semi-hard raw milk cheese stored at 4C. ”
Storing dairy products at or below 4C will allow all pathogens and spoilage microbes to survive indefinately. This has been known for 50 or more years and is the reason for the mandatory ripening time for various cheeses at temperatures in the range 10-22C for the first one to two weeks after manufacture. These temperatures are required to develop the microflora of the cheese to give it the characteristic flavour and texture ( holes in Swiss,white mould on brie and blue mould on roquforte and the character of each and every variety of cheeses.) If the curd is put straight in the fridge it remains tasteless curd known to cheesemakers as bung-hole for its effect on bowel movement. Also there is a requirement in the legal standards for raw milk of a minimum maturation period at temperatures above refrigeration. eg Cheddar 90 days at greater than 2C. See USA FDA standards for dairy products.
Sep 4th, 2008 at 11:49 am
I’m glad the “big players are being conservative”. It’s the big players who are more likely to cause problems with food borne illness than any small, cottage industry, local cheese maker. Which, from what Christian is saying is an industry near impossible for us to develop here in Australia due to the costs of testing. The permit Christian has gained from Safe Foods means he can only create very large batches of raw cheese and sell directly to the consumer. Meaning big players must create even larger batches to distribute via the current system. This, I agree, is a worry. Christian says he’d have to have his own cows to do this and pretty much get the cheese making happening within an hour of milking. (Sounds like a herdshare to me).
Bottom Line: Cheese making, and raw milk needs its own distribution system and certifications.
Big Players just can’t play the same way they have been. That’s why they’re conservative. They can’t easily be involved in raw cheese and raw milk (with safety). It will take them quite some time to catch up.
I’m not a microbiologist but I’ve been drinking raw milk for at least 6 years, in large quantities (my family drink at least 20 litres a week), both straight from the farm and via the healthfood shop distribution of the bath milks. Never have I had any issue. Infact, I believe my immune system has benefited from including it in my diet. I’ve left that milk out on the bench with and without kefir innoculant and drunk it sour as well as made cream cheese from it once it separated. No problems. Ever.
Etsy, as a microbiologist, would you recommend specific certification for raw milk that is audited (just like organics), new distribution methods that ensure small herds and localism and labelling for raw milk products that warns immune compromised people of it’s “dangers”?
This, in essense, is what raw milk enthusiasts are after.
I notice the study we are speaking of doesn’t qualify if the raw milk is grass fed or not. I believe there is studies that show grass fed raw milk to be stronger at resisting pathogenic bacterial innoculation. Will endeavour to find out more. Grass fed is another of our desires for our raw milk.
Sep 7th, 2008 at 9:07 pm
hi all,
i would really love to sbmit for raw milk usage.
i only just now found this article, and it must be followed up promtly, as time is running out.
i am not well, and i need relevant sites for the FSANZ to accept. My head is very fuzzy and i cannot think.
above you said that submissions have to have scientific backup for claims.
i will get onto the website that has a template up to put in a submission, but do i need to quote ‘acceptable evidence’ in the submission.
do i go to different articles stated above and quote those in the submission?
what else do i do.
i need it to be all spelt out for me at the moment.
regards to you all
ingrid
Sep 8th, 2008 at 4:51 pm
What we’re doing Ingrid is gathering data and writing our submissions in separate projects:
Project 1: How to make sure raw milk products are safe.
Mark McAffee’s Food Safety HACCP plan is <a href=”http://editor.nourishedmagazine.com.au/articles/fsanz-update-raw-dairy-in-us-support-nourished-community”here.
Project 2: Farming and production requirements of Raw Milk
Raw USA have a certification for raw milk here. We also need to ask for legislation that ensures raw milk and raw cheese are products of a cottage industry. The raw milk industry must be localised to ensure it’s safety and viability as an industry. See Christian’s comments above.
Project 3: Raw Milk Consumers
I’ve started gathering some comments and testimonials here. We need to write a little about Raw Milk Consumers over all and probably recommend FSANZ conducts questioning of consumers via Nourished Magazine, since people may not want to be interviewed personally for legal reasons.
Project 4: Category 3 Milk Product Re-legalisation
We may get cheddar cheese legalisation but not soft cheese and raw milk. We need to prove that these are not harmful. Perhaps here is where we write about labelling.
Project 5: Villify Pasteurisation
This article from RealMilk.com will help our argument that pasteurised milk is unnacceptable to us as food.
http://editor.nourishedmagazine.com.au/articles/raw-milk-vs-pasteurized-milk
Project 6: Case Studies
We can take from the comments we receive from readers. Luke is also gathering details in his area (dairy area mid NSW)
Project 7: Raw Milk Certification
See Raw USA certification.
If you want to take just one of these projects, that would be great, Ingrid. And anyone who wants to work with us. We’ve got til Sept 10 to start putting it all together. Sept 17 is the deadline for submissions and our aim is to have something available that readers can easily use to write their own submission.
Sep 8th, 2008 at 4:52 pm
PS. There’s also this for villification of Pasteurisation.
http://editor.nourishedmagazine.com.au/articles/what-is-raw-milk-and-is-it-healthy
Sep 9th, 2008 at 9:20 pm
hi,,
i have sent an email for submission to FSANZ, with proposal tag.
i have ben looking for the template as mentioned above, but cannot find it.
i went to raw mlk cheesemakers, which direcetd me back to here.
how do i find the template.
i will write another when, when you have an info guide as to what to say and references.
regards ingrid
Sep 10th, 2008 at 1:56 pm
Esta, I’ve located a study clearly showing that grass fed pasteurised dairy does indeed inhibit pathogenic bacteria:
“In 2004, University California Davis, Agricultural Department experimented with spiking raw milk with various pathogens to see if raw milk truly exhibited antibacterial activity. The experiments proved absolutely, conclusively that Organic Pastures Dairy’s raw milk inhibited pathogenic bacteria from breeding in it.
Dold, H., Wizaman, E., and Kleiner, C. wrote in their abstract, “[Raw] Human or cow milk added to an equal volume of agar did not support the growth or allowed only slight growth of B. diphtheriae Staph. aureus, B. coli, B. prodigiosus, B. pyocyaneus, B. anthracis, streptococci, and unidentified wild yeast.64 The ‘inhibins’ in cow’s milk are inactivated by heating between 60-70 degrees C. for 30 minutes. Attempts have not been made to identify the natural antiseptics.””
This is taken from a testimony presented by Aajanus Vonderplanitz Phd Nutrition and William Campbell Douglas MD - both raw milk experts. Excerpts from that presentation will be uploaded onto this blog shortly.
Sep 10th, 2008 at 3:40 pm
Meant to write grass fed UNpasteurised dairy. Sorry.
Sep 12th, 2008 at 3:18 pm
http://www.abetz-rouse.com.au/raw_milk.pdf
Here is my submission so far. If anyone has some comments please do so soon, as I plan to get it in by Tuesday.
Sep 15th, 2008 at 10:35 am
The Nourished Community Submission is complete:
http://editor.nourishedmagazine.com.au/articles/nourished-community-fsanz-submission-for-raw-milk
Copy portions at your will and submit your comments to FSANZ before 6pm on Wednesday (Sep 17).
Anyone who’s commented her should do so also. Numbers talk!
Sep 15th, 2008 at 2:21 pm
When I was a child we only had RAW MILK delivered to our billy cans each morning by the milk-man with a horse-drawn cart. I was always a healthy child and have been healthy ever since; now 82 years young. I am very keen to consume as much Omega 3 as posible. We have beef cattle - grass-fed - so we eat meat from our own animals which have a much better 3:6 ratio than lot-fed (grain) cattle. I believe milk from grass-fed cows, such as that from a local dairy, would also have good levels of Omega 3. With all the regulations involved in dairys I feel that the likelyhood of fresh milk being unhealthy is very low and indeed the health benefits are likely to be significant compared to milk that has been killed, and gone through many steps in handling and processing.
erik
Sep 15th, 2008 at 8:20 pm
From Dorothy J. Gilbert Farmer at Castle Craig Farm, 411 Marokopa Road, R.D.5, Te Kuiti, 3985 New Zealand. Tel. 07 8767322. e-mail: gilbertclan@xtra.co.nz
In the past milk was looked upon as a great health food, before the days of pasteurization and Homogenization.
I wish to mention some relevant books and people who found raw milk a great asset. The following books we have found an inspiration.
1. ‘New Zealand’s Greatest Doctor’ concerning Ulric Williams by Brenda Samson ISBN 0-908850-15-8. Dr. Williams was a surgeon who graduated at Edinburgh in Scotland in 1918, in the early thirties he changed from modern conventional medicine treatments to Naturopath, with a strong strict loving Christian approach. His diet and attitude teaching cured many who were regarded as incurable with often a diet of just water, creamy non pasteurized milk and fresh citrus fruit. He was a great believer in fasting, so as to clean out the body system from all harmful and surplus substances. He advocated food not being tampered with, adulterated but being eaten, drunk or lightly cooked in the form God created it. At that time the milk used would not have been pasteurized or homogenized.
2. ‘The Untold Story of Milk’ by Ron Schmid ISBN 0-9670897-4-3, he reveals many amazing facts including trickery that was used to advocate pasteurized milk in U.S.A. A fictitious article in Coronet magazine was presented as fact ‘Raw Milk Can Kill You’ 1945, it was false evidence concerning an out break of Undulant fever that had not occurred.
3. ‘Devil in the Milk’ by Keith Woodford ISBN 978-1-877333-70-5. This is concerning A1 milk being a mutation of A2 milk. Mutations always cause deterioration or are inferior to the original, which God created. It is a very well documented book. A2 is very healthy milk, but A1 has an amino acid chain that is too short, and can pass through a leaky bowel to the blood stream and then can cause or aggravate health problems such as Diabetes type 1, ischaemic heart disease, autism, schizophrenia and allergies.
4. Dr William Petersen did write various articles, but I am unable to find any at present. He was a Dr of medicine and of Dairying. We had the pleasure of visiting him at his home at St. Paul in Minnisota, U.S.A. in 1963 where he had done dairying research for many years at the local University. He was already retired, I had first met him in 1949 when he was touring Britain on a lecture tour advocating non hand stripping of dairy cows after machine milking. He was way ahead of his time concerning the cow’s milk being able to pass on immunity to those who drink her milk. The only country that showed interest and appreciation of his research on this aspect was Germany. This milk would not have been pasteurized. He had used milk from cows exposed to certain diseases and allergy producing plants to cure people including himself of the relevant problems. Through his research he had found where the people in the past had suffered from T.B. the local cattle did not have the problem and visa versa.
5. Thus as long as the milk is produced cleanly and is well cooled, raw milk is an excellent healthy food. All our children and my husband and I were raised on lots of raw milk. Our children were horrified when they first sampled pasteurized milk when we were on our first holiday and detested the flavour of it compared with our sweet home produced Aryshire milk. We were dairy Farming in England for 28 years before moving to New Zealand in 2000.
Sep 17th, 2008 at 11:26 am
THE FSANZ SUBMISSION DEADLINE HAS BEEN EXTENDED UNTIL 24 SEPTEMBER! So if you’re reading this now, you’ve still time.
Oct 3rd, 2008 at 4:55 pm
I have just stumbled on your website and I am delighted!
My son is 16 months old and since he was 12 months i introduced pasteurized goats milk. He stopped sleeping through the night. I have been finding it hard to purchase raw goats milk until 2 weeks ago, and even then it is frozen and it is sold quickly. BUT….Since I have given him the raw goat milk he now sleeps through! what a great thing! It is a shame it is so hard for people to find raw milk and I totally support you in your mission to push FSANZ into changing the laws and allowing sale of raw milk and raw milk products.
I also have a question . Today I found a place that sells Goats milk but it is partly pasteurized..or heated at a lower temp. Do you know what Temp will remove the Tryptophan from the milk as it seems from my experiment that the fully pasteurized goats milk I purchase from the supermarket has none or less Tryptophan?