The Nourisher - Editor’s Blog

When we got married the registry wouldn’t let me put Super Hero as my occupation, they put Home Duties on our marriage certificate instead. But I AM a Super Hero and my Super Hero name is…… The Nourisher.

Raw Milk Vs. Pasteurized Milk


From Armchair Science, London (April 1938)

There is no substitute for clean, raw milk as a food, so far as children are concerned. Science has not yet succeeded in providing, in the pasteurized variety, those essential qualities that are the only real foundation for a healthy child.

Unfortunately, many grossly distorted statements are current regarding our milk supply. If we are to believe the protagonists of the Pasteurization-of-all-milk-at-all costs Party, raw milk is as good, or rather as bad, as rat poison-although as the Minister of Agriculture recently stated, “the human race existed long before Pasteur was heard of.”

The process of pasteurization was debated in the House of Commons and the suggestion made that no raw milk should be sold for human consumption. This would mean installation of expensive machinery by every supplier, and if it should become compulsory there is little doubt that many small firms would shut down and the business pass in the hands of a few big dealers.

If we are to be compelled to drink pasteurized milk, we should at least understand what pasteurization means. It set out to accomplish two things: Destruction of certain disease-carrying germs and the prevention of souring milk. These results are obtained by keeping the milk at a temperature of 145 degrees to 150 degrees F. for half an hour, at least, and then reducing the temperature to not more than 55 degrees F.

It is undoubtedly beneficial to destroy dangerous germs, but pasteurization does more than this-it kills off harmless and useful germs alike, and by subjecting the milk to high temperatures, destroys some nutritious constituents.

With regards to the prevention of souring; sour raw milk is very widely used. It is given to invalids, being easily digested, laxative in its properties, and not unpleasant to take. But, after pasteurization, the lactic acid bacilli are killed. The milk, in consequence, cannot become sour and quickly decomposes, while undesirable germs multiply very quickly.

Pasteurization’s great claim to popularity is the widespread belief, fostered by its supporters, that tuberculosis in children is caused by the harmful germs found in raw milk. Scientists have examined and tested thousands of milk samples, and experiments have been carried out on hundreds of animals in regard to this problem of disease-carrying by milk. But the one vital fact that seems to have been completely missed is that it is CLEAN, raw milk that is wanted. If this can be guaranteed, no other form of food for children can, or should, be allowed to take its place.

Dirty milk, of course, is like any other form of impure food - a definite menace. But Certified Grade A Milk, produced under Government supervision and guaranteed absolutely clean, is available practically all over the country and is the dairy-farmer’s answer to the pasturization zealots.

Recent figures published regarding the spread of tuberculosis by milk show, among other facts, that over a period of five years, during which time 70 children belonging to a special organization received a pint of raw milk daily. One case only of the disease occurred. During a similar period when pasteurized milk had been given, 14 cases were reported.

Besides destroying part of the vitamin C contained in raw milk and encouraging growth of harmful bacteria, pasteurization turns the sugar of milk, known as lactose, into beta-lactose - which is far more soluble and therefore more rapidly absorbed in the system, with the result that the child soon becomes hungry again.

Probably pasteurization’s worst offence is that it makes insoluable the major part of the calcium contained in raw milk. This frequently leads to rickets, bad teeth, and nervous troubles, for sufficient calcium content is vital to children; and with the loss of phosphorus also associated with calcium, bone and brain formation suffer serious setbacks.

Pasteurization also destroys 20 percent of the iodine present in raw milk, causes constipation and generally takes from the milk its most vital qualities.

In face of these facts-which are undeniable-what has the Pasteurization Party to say? Instead of compelling dealers to set up expensive machinery for turning raw milk into something that is definitely not what it sets out to be - a nutritious, health giving food - let them pass legislation making the dairy-farmers produce clean, raw milk - that is milk pure to drink with all its constituents unaltered.

The above was published in Magazine Digest - June 1938
Armchair Science is a British Medical Journal

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Real milk comes from real cows that eat real cow food. It contains no additives, is not pasturized or homogenized nor is it fed to humans skimmed. Real Milk can save Family Farms and the health of many millions of people.. Join a campaign for Real Milk. A project of The Weston A. Price Foundation For international Real Milk Activism go to the the Weston A Price Foundation's Real Milk Site.

COMMENTS - 251 Responses

  1. 1. Paul Darrington
    Sep 17th, 2005 at 6:31 pm

    Raw Milk is far superiour to processed milk, especially when cultured (with Kefir).
    Raw Goats Milk is available in many parts of Australia, however the sale of raw cows milk is illegal to my knowlege, so it pays to know a dairy famer.

    Feel free to email me with any questions.

    Paul Darrington

  2. Cleopatras Bath Milk is available in South East Qld and Norther NSW. Sold as a cosmetic, it bypasses the laws. It is also possible to buy a share of a herd ($10) and drink the milk from your own cows. There really is nothing better than ice cream made from fresh raw cream, raw egg yolks, maple syrup and strawberries.

  3. 3. david patane
    Dec 7th, 2005 at 6:15 pm

    have tried it but am worried if its clean enough to dr ink?

  4. We have been drinking gallons of this milk for 4 years now. Never once have we had a bad experience. Sometimes the milk goes sour in summer when we don’t get it in the fridge quick enough. If this happens, we just leave it out on the bench until it turns into curds and whey (3 days or so). We then sieve the curds and hang in a cloth overnight and use it in spinach pie or all raw cheese cake. The whey we use for fermented vegies like kimchi.

  5. To find out more about the benefits of raw milk and dangers of pasteurised milk products check this link.

  6. 6. robert brager
    Aug 30th, 2006 at 4:08 pm

    would like to know more about the job as herd share manager

  7. I’ll email you Robert.


  8. 8. Kimberly Page
    Sep 28th, 2006 at 7:37 am

    I’m trying to find information regarding the health benefits of goat’s milk vs. formula for infants. I have recommended raw goat’s milk to a friend who has just adopted a newborn and have read in the past that this is second best, the first being breast milk. I can’t seem to find the fact sheet on the web. Can you help? Thanks.

  9. Kimberly

    There ar a couple of vital nutrients missing from animal milk. Tell her to use the Weston Price formula. Many practitioners haven’t used raw milk before and will tell you that you are risking allergies. Try to find a practitioner who understands raw milk. You can get a good kinesiologist to muscle test raw milk for the baby for allergies.

    What ever you do, get her to read this before choosing soy formula.

    Here are some great recipes for formulas. There is a group in Australia buying products from the US which is where you’ll have to get some of the ingredients from.

    We’d love to hear how you go.


  10. Hi, I am from Sydney, and I’ve been looking for organic grass-fed raw milk for quite sometimes now. Can someone please shed some lights on where to get it?? Thanks Millions!!!

  11. 11. Tracey Masson
    Feb 6th, 2007 at 11:42 pm

    Hi, I am from the Adelaide Hills in South Australia and would like to know where I can get clean raw milk from.
    You mentioned there was a group in Australia buying products from the US to make the Weston price formulas.
    Can you please tell me the name of this group. Thanks

  12. Tracey
    I was just in Adelaide, for the Oneness Conference. Beautiful city.  I mostly send people looking for raw milk to Real Milk Australia to help lobby to the government for a regulated raw milk supply. There are quite a few people asking for raw milk in your area.I can gather everyone’s details and perhaps you can organise with a local dairy a herd share.
    The group that were buying from US experienced trouble with importation. Customs stopped the package as it was so big and we had to pay extra duties, making our group discount worthless. The products are amazing though and better than anything we can get here. It’s best to contact Dr Ron’s, Green Pastures or Radiant Life for products by yourself.

  13. 13. Tracey Masson
    Feb 7th, 2007 at 3:57 pm

    Hi and thanks for replying. I will try a couple of dairys and see what they can offer. I will get back in to you if I have any luck.

  14. Michelle in Sydney I have found Cleopatra’s bath milk at French’s Forest organic market on Sunday mornings. The guy has been selling it there for a few months now. He also has raw cream, yogurt and cottage cheese.

  15. Thanks Andrew for the info about the Frenchs Forest maket for the raw milk. I’ve been looking for some where to purchase it on this side of the bridge for ages. You need to arrive early there though. They open at 8 and I arrived at 9 and they had already sold out of the 40 bottles they had with them. I’m trying to convince my friends in the Nth Ryde area to drink raw milk, then I’ll get a home delivery of 11 bottles from A2 milk and split it up between us.

  16. Michelle & Amanda in Sydney, I found the following list of places elsewhere on nourishedmagazine’s site that are supposed to stock Cleopatra’s Bath Milk:

    * Whole foods House - 109 Queen St Woollahra 2025 9363 9889
    Was there on Sunday 11th March 2007 & they didn’t have any, and not even a label in their fridge for it. Have only visited here when Fruitgasm was out of stock, and they have been out of stock too. All the same a very comprehensive organic shop. You can get unpasteurised goat’s milk and also little packets of Kefir culture here.
    * Fruitgasm - 54 -54 MacPherson St Bronte 2024 9389 9676
    This is where I have had the best luck. On Sunday 11th they were out of stock and said they will get more in this coming Thursday. A friendly family run greengrocery, linked to a cafe next door. 2L Cleopatra’s yellow-cap bottle price reduced by $1 about a month ago to $6.95. Yes expensive I know, but am not ever going back to broken milk if I can help it.
    * Dr Earth Health Foods - 444 Oxford St Bondi Junction 2022 9389 3404
    In the mall, just up from the railway entrance on the same side of the street. Have only visited here when Fruitgasm was out of stock, and they have been out of stock too. I asked a while ago and they said they did sell Cleopatra’s.
    * Dr Earth Health Foods - 311 King St Newtown 2042 9519 3495
    Haven’t been here yet.
    * Life Organic - 125 King St Newtown 2042 9565 1156
    Haven’t been here yet.
    * Alf-Alfa House Co-Operative - 113 Enmore Rd Newtown 2042 9519 3374
    Haven’t been here yet.

    Also, courtesy of Gemma Davis’s posting, the following markets are said to stock Cleo’s:
    * Pyrmont Good Food market, first Saturday of each month
    * North Sydney organic market, third Saturday of each month
    * Leichhardt organic market (Orange Grove School), every Saturday
    * Frenches Forest organic market, every Sunday

    Good books for anyone who hasn’t heard of them are
    “The Untold Story of Milk” by Ron Schmid, ND (very recent; scholarly yet very readable)
    and also
    “The Milk Book: The Milk of Human Kindness is not Pasteurised” by William Campbell Douglas II, MD
    (written in 1984 & republished 2003, it still has relevant details. This author is somewhat less thorough in citing his sources than Dr Schmid, but is entertaining and idiosyncratic - and rather ascrebic when talking about government bureaucrats who oppose good milk and good sense.

    Both of these are available on, and Schmid’s book, as well as the essential reading “The Cholesterol Myths” by Uffe Ravnskov, MD, PhD are available locally from

    Also for good scientific links that explode the lies about cholesterol causing heart disease, check out

    NSW people: we should all be writing letters to our local state political candidates at the moment, to make them aware there are voters who want to be able to choose to buy fresh healthy raw milk - make it legal like in South Australia. Pollies of all flavours tend to listen better when your votes are dangling in front of them!

  17. Peter,

    Thanks so much for all that information! I visited Dr Earth’s Health Foods at Newtown and they did have it in stock. It’s best to ring before you go in case they are sold out and they sell out fast. By saturday they seem to rarely have any. They were happy to order it in for me on a permanent basis if I wanted them to. They don’t keep it in the shop, it seems to be kept in a fridge out the back.

    I’ve also been to Leichardt organic market last year and they told me that the guy that used to sell it there doesn’t any more. I’m hoping he’s come back as it’s much closer than Frenchs Forest. The market’s at Frenchs Forest sell it for $5 which is great.

    I’ll check out those websites you recommended. Thanks again.

  18. Hi Amanda!

    Thanks for the info on Dr Earth at Newtown and the good price at Frenchs Forest!

    I have now also visited Life Organic at Newtown (spick & span little place on King Street just left round the corner from Missenden Road, price $6.45), and last Sunday (25th March 07) I ended up at Alf-Alfa on Enmore road when Life Organic was out of stock. Alf-Alfa is a great place for those who are organically inclined, with large plastic barrels of all sorts of organic produce, as well as the biggest stock of Cleopatra’s in the fridge that I have yet seen. This . 3 bottles set me back $19.75 - that’s $6.5833 per bottle, so I’m not sure how that comes about.. maybe its GST or that gives the strange cents amount! A cool back-to-basics shop though, & a cute cashier! ;-)

    Another good book for you:
    “The Great Cholesterol Con” by Anthony Colpo, published 2006. This guy is Australian, a fitness trainer from Melbourne, but he has researched the subject with academic thoroughness; his book contains over 1400 references, many of them to scientific papers & studies (Dr Uffe Ravnskov wrote the foreward). Very comprehensive listing of all the major cholesterol studies from the 1950s to now (you’d be amazed how many had no significant result, and how the ones that did were so poorly conducted they make a travesty of science). While many still are flogging the dead horse of low-fat diets, Colpo enumerates modern research that is investigating (after being side-tracked for 50 years) what might be the real possible causes of heart disease (again with references to current scientific research). The book is available in an online version from Colpo’s website , and also from Angus & Robertson and also Amazon ( ) which has reader reviews posted as well.

    Does anyone know if anyone in Sydney or elsewhere in Australia has set up any sort of cow-share programme or co-operative? Sort of like a syndicate owning a racehorse… except with cows instead!


  19. Hi, I don’t know if this conversation is still active or not. I was thinking of selling sheep’s milk in the same vein as Cleopatra milk, would any one be interested if I did? It’s highly nutrients with double a lot of the nutrients in both cow and goat milk and it tastes scrummy too, or would butter, yoghurt, ice cream (wonder what kind of body care ice cream would come under ;-)) and cheese be better? Also I thought I’d let you guys know they are importing Roquefort cheese from France and it is definitely unpasturized says so on the label and everything. I’m sure you could get a cow or herd share with a diary on the outskirts of Sydney there are a few, they have mostly Holsteins though.

  20. Hi Nessa,
    I read somewhere that raw goats’ milk was legal to be sold for drinking in NSW and most other states, it’s only cows’ milk that is stupidly banned from being sold for drinking raw. I’m guessing that sheep or even more exotic milks would slip under the bureaucrats’ noses like goats’ milk. I’d be curious to give sheeps’ milk a try.

    If you are able to produce raw sheeps’ milk butter, yoghurt and cheese, that would be fantastic.. although I have forever abandoned margarine and only use butter now, I’m conscious that it’s made with pasteurised cream, which has killed a lot of the nutrients (at least it’s beneficial saturated fat, and not harmful trans fat or reactive mono or polyunsaturated fats).

    I’ve never made butter or cheese before and was wondering about giving it a go with some Cleopatra’s, but didn’t want to waste any of my precious limited drinking supply. If you have a number of woolly friends who can supply in quantity so that you have enough ingredient to play with I’d say go for it! The same places with enough common sense and gumption to sell Cleopatra’s skin care (ahem) milk will probably stock your produce happily. If you will sell directly as well, when you are ready perhaps post here and also on the forum so we know when and where we can try some!

  21. 21. Katrina Armstrong
    Apr 7th, 2007 at 11:19 am

    Hi Nessa. Do you know where you can buy the Roquefort cheese in Sydney?

  22. Hi Katrina,
    I found a narrow wedge of Roquefort cheese (complete with “unpasteurised” mention on the back) at my local Coles supermarket. It was one of those mouldy cheeses like Blue Vein and, like BV, proved a bit sharp and smelly for my liking! :-)

  23. Hi, just to let you know you can also buy Cleopatra’s Bath Milk from The Green Tucker Store at Forestville in Sydney (between Roseville and Frenchs Forest). You can order it in every week if you wish and it arrives on Tuesday with a good use by period, and they usually have a few spare in the fridge. You can look them up on the internet.

  24. Nessa…I hopr you are still around and you get this message because I am desperate to get some sheep milk for my daughter who is seriously ill …sheep milk is one of the few things she can digest and my supply ran out…can anyone help?

  25. Thanks for the info about Green Tucker Store. It’s closer to me so it’s great. I gave them a ring this morning and the lovely person on the phone explained because of the drought there’s a severe shortage of the cleopatra’s milk. Instead of getting 3 cartons in, they only got one and didn’t cover the orders they had. When things get back to normal they’ll have spares in the fridge.

  26. Ness,
    If you are either in Sydney or Victoria, try ringing up Macro Wholefoods as they are usually pretty good at stocking what some Health food stores don’t. I am not too sure, but they may have Sheeps milk too, but it will be pasteurised though as they too have to conform to the law.

    For the Sydney locations:

    Bondi Junction

    31-37 Oxford Street
    Bondi Junction NSW 2022

    Tel: 02 9389 7611 Fax: 02 9389 0707

    Parking: 1 hour meter parking in surrounding streets

    View a map


    43 Majors Bay Road
    Concord NSW 2137

    Tel 02 9021 8511 Fax 02 9021 8500

    Parking: Underground parking available, access via Jellicoe St. Unlimited parking in surrounding streets

    View a map

    Crows Nest

    13-19 Willoughby Road

    Crows Nest NSW 2065

    Tel: 02 9004 1240 Fax: 02 9004 1250

    Parking: 2 hours free parking at rear, access via Alexander St

    View a map

    Newtown (Macro Cafe only)

    146 King St
    Newtown NSW 2042

    Tel 02 9550 5747 Fax 02 9550 5748

    View a map


    Shop 2009 (Level 2, near David Jones)
    Westfield Hornsby, Pacific Hwy, Hornsby NSW 2077
    Tel: 02 8401 7111 Fax: 02 8401 7100

    Parking: Best entrance for Macro is via Albert Street carpark, on the Yellow level.

    View a map

    And for the Victoria locations:

    1068 High Street, Armadale VIC 3143
    Tel 03 9947 1111 Fax 03 9947 1100

    Parking: Free 1.5 hour parking at the end of William St

    View a map

    Black Rock

    40 Bluff Road, Black Rock VIC 3193
    Tel 03 9914 5111 Fax 03 9914 5100

    Parking: Beside store and across Bluff Road (100 spaces in total)

    View a map

    Glen Waverley

    Shop 2.200 (Level 2, near David Jones, in Lifestyle Life precinct)
    Centro The Glen shopping centre
    235 Springvale Road, Glen Waverley VIC 3150

    Tel: 03 8804 4688 Fax: 03 8804 4600

    View a map


    153 Bridge Road, Richmond VIC 3121
    Tel: 03 9935 8888 Fax: 03 9935 8800

    Parking: At rear, access via Judd St
    Public Transport: Trams 48 and 75

    View a map

    Or alternatively, try ringing up your local health food store to see if they can order some in for you?

  27. Thank you for these supportive information
    Just wondering if anyone knows whether Cleopatra’s bath milk comes from pasture-fed cow.
    Meaning, the cows eat natural foods (those grasses etc), not those GMO grains and hormones shots.

  28. Hi all. I managed to loose this thread! I hope your all still here and active :-) I will be offering a ewe share program that allows me to supply raw milk. I will also have cosmetic milk, yoghurt, butter and cheese (limited).
    Sheep’s milk is great for allergy suffers. I should add that my ewes are out on pasture all day and night (no pesticide), are not feed antibiotics or hormones. I think that there is no one selling liquid sheep milk in the whole of oz…you might get powdered (yuck!), I’m hoping to change that! Milking will start in December, I could probably get a very limited supply for anyone who is having serious health problems and needs it ASAP. Please email me about your interest @ blackthorn_dairy_sheepatbigponddotcom replace at with @ and dot with .
    Please pass on the good news,

  29. There is another brand of raw milk called ” Aphodites Bath milk” this is advertised as cosmetic for reasons we all know and is BFA Certified. (Its comes from Victoria) You can purchase this through the or they are at the Bondi Junction Markets on Friday & Saturday, as well as French’s Forrest markets on Sunday Morning. They have a selection of unprocessed foods:- Ricotta cheese and Real Whey made from Cleopatra Milk. Unprocessed Yoghurt made from raw cows milk and butter. Vege Loaf (awesome) gulten free- grain free - made with sprouted buckwheat, vegies, herbs and seeds. They sell drinking coconuts (young coconuts), coconut oil and coconut flour. You can even buy organic Chicken bone or Beef broth and they have an array of gulten free, soy free, sugar free muffins, chocolates, brownies. They will be soon opening up a store mid Oct 2007 on Oxford St Bondi Junction (opposite Macro’s) which they will aso sell organic vegies and fruit. I buy loads of there produce and it is so yummy & healthy - have to get in early at the markets, cause it all sells really quick.

  30. Hi, I am looking for organic raw milk farmers or suppliers on Northeast Victoria especially goat’s milk. I would also be interested in buying goats meat.

  31. Read more about California Government’s Sneak Attack on California Raw Milk
    No more raw milk after January 2008!

  32. Alert to all Australian raw milk farmers and consumers: our authorities need some educating to learn that ONLY unprocessed raw milk from cows eating only organic green pastures will be healthy and nutritious for you. It has kept traditional cultures alive for thousands of years.

    Read the latest news hitting the papers in NSW:

    Only living milk from healthy happy old breed cows brings life. So for now you need to make sure the label says “NOT FOR HUMAN CONSUMPTION”

  33. Thanks for posting that newslink, Maree. The hysteria against raw milk is hateful and shocking enough in America, but it is even more disturbing to find it here, on our own doorstep. We need to raise awareness and write to the government minister that was mentioned. Perhaps coordinate via the forum.

    I am incensed that there are faceless bureacrats issuing patently false statements to mislead both the Sydney Morning Herald and the general public, who are too cowardly to allow their name to be attached to the comments. Either they are woefully uninformed, bordering on incompetent, or they are deliberately spreading misinformation, with statements like “Raw milk contains harmful bacteria including e.coli, salmonella and listeria” and “some argue that good nutrients are killed during pasteurisation … but all the science is against that.” Raw milk of course does not automatically contain the bacteria mentioned - they usually get into milk through fecal contamination arising from sloppy handling procedures, and this can occur for pasteurised milk also. And as for “all the science” not being able to prove good nutrients are killed, the Phosphatase Test, which detects if the phosphatase enzyme in milk has been destroyed, was developed as long ago as 1933. Yes, they tested for pasteurisation not by making sure that the bad stuff was inactive, but instead by making sure that the good stuff, needed for robust health and proper nutrition, was dead! .

    Another great book that everyone should read (besides Dr Ron Schmid’s “The Untold Story of Milk”) is one called “Enzyme Nutrition” by Dr Edward Howell (only US$9.56 over at - nice & cheap with the Aussie Dollar so good against the greenback at the moment! In fact I think the postage costs more than the book itself, which I found funny). Howell researched enzymes for decades and was convinced by conclusions drawn from over 400 scientific studies that we all have a finite store of enzyme-creating potential and, once used up, our life ends. To give you the potted version of his conclusions, he felt that we should get as many enzymes from our food as we can, so that our body does not need to strip its reserves to make digestive enzymes. Reading the book made a light bulb go on over my head - so that is why raw foods are better! With so much of our food now processed and coooked and pasteurised and packaged, it is all dead and lifeless.. and how can that which is without life be expected to support life? Instead of getting enzymatic help from the food we eat, we are relying entirely on our personal reserves.

    That robotic officials guided by misguided and archaic laws can seek to prevent us seeking a live food for our good health is offensive in the extreme. Consider that with good health we will reduce the strain on the hospital system, groaning under the weight of all those who follow officially blessed and/or recommended dietary guidelines. Increasing rates of cancer, obesity, diabetes, arthritis (even in children!) and heart disease is staring everyone in the face. How long will the greedy and the powerful try to deny this in order to cling to their obscene profits? Answer: for as long as we remain quiet and accepting and passive. The Weston A Price chapters in Australia have been established none too soon - and we need to band together under the WAPF and link with other organically minded folk and make our voices heard, loud and clear.

    So let’s get big! Let’s get active! Let’s write to government ministers and shock them that there are more of us than they thought. Let’s pin up informantion on local noticeboards. Let’s brainstorm for ideas and action! Big business ultimately doesn’t give a hoot about our health if it detracts from profits, and the government will only listen if we remind them that their jobs depend on us.

  34. Oh, I forgot to add.. just found an organic website that reports details of more good folk selling raw milk* at various place in NSW:

    Lismore: Cleopatra’s Bath Milk is for sale at Fundamentals Food shop.
    Byron Bay: Raw milk is available in Byron Bay if you ask around.
    Murwillumba: Cleopatra’s Bath Milk is available at the health food shop (Santosh).
    Manly NSW: Cleopatra’s Bath Milk available from Pure Wholefoods Shop, 5/10 Darley Road Manly NSW

    By the way, if you want a really enzyme-rich meal, try some Steak Tartare and salad. The Belgian Beer Cafe in Cammeray (and probably the one in The Rocks as well) serves quite a nice rendition of this raw meat dish as “filet américain”, and you probably won’t have much trouble ordering it at any good French restaurant either.


    * (for the beautification of your skin, of course)

  35. Hear Hear Peter. I totally agree. I may set to writing a draft letter to local MPs for all to use. Any ideas what to include everyone?

  36. Hi all :-)
    Just a reminder that from March (a bit later than expected!) I will have raw ewe’s bath milk available (@ $3.00 a litre postage), I can post frozen sheep’s milk all over Australia (they do this in England with no worries) and I may even be able to post fresh refrigerated bath milk-but I will have to investigate. I will also have limited amounts of raw ewe’s bath colostrum available (@ $4.00 a litre postage) and facial yoghurt (@ $3.00 for 500g postage or $6.00 per litre postage) and if anyone expresses demand, raw body butter (100% pure ewes milk cream cultures) and raw face cream (100% ewes milk cream). Milk will be very carefully collected, filtered, cooled and stored with a very carefully managed hygiene regime, I am using USA grade A milk standards as a guide. Just email what you’d like and estimative amounts to be added to my list, I will email regular updates. Also anybody who lives within driving distance to me can call to make an appointment and visit the farm to pick up their bath milk (or other product) and see the girls enjoying life. I also have percentage milk sheep lambs available occasionally, again email your interest and what sex/colour you’d like and I’ll add you to the list. I may have grass-fed lamb available in the future also, if anyone expresses an interest.
    Re the newspaper article, this is ludicrous! They are woefully uninformed and are misleading the public, we need to take action. Also as we speak there is a revamp of cheese laws under way, meaning that if enough people support it we may have access to legal raw milk cheese from as early as the new year, I have my fingers crossed.

  37. Thank you Peter for stepping up the pace. I have notified some of my like minded souls this am, so we can all work together to mobilise the troups!! Hope to obtain State Ministerial email details for all to email their comments.

    Joanne, putting an example letter together would be great place for us all to work from. Maybe Real Milk Australia and OPDC USA would be able to assist with the specifics.

    BTW Victora’s Dairy Food Safety released this Media announcement on 20Sep07: Media Release Cosmetic Use Products final.pdf

  38. Nessa, that sounds great!!! Sheep yogurt is fantastic. Where are you?

  39. Hi Megan,
    I’m near Goulburn, NSW about 1 hours drive from Canberra and 2 hours from both Sydney and the south coast.

  40. I have heard from a friend that the guy who sells raw milk in Frenchs Forest in Sydney has been prevented from selling his milk and is no longer doing it.

  41. This is bad news - I might scout about at Frenchs Forest markets on Sunday to see if I can find out more from the guy (if I can find him). The SMH article said that a government agency was taking action ïn response to complaints”.. which makes me wonder exactly *who* complained? Surely not anyone buying this worthy cosmetic product. So I am left to wonder if it was some rival shopkeeper..

    At any rate, if people want to sell it and others want to buy it, what makes raw milk any different to raw meat? It is a substance that promotes good health, and instead is being treated as if it was some sort of drug of addiction, which is ridiculous. We must mobilise to prevent the quiet supression of a vital health product!

    One idea is to find out who are the people negotiating for unpasteurised cheese - the promising rumours that it might be legalised soon could be extended to milk if we could establish the right contacts. Imported raw French Roquefort cheese is already permitted (I’ve seen it at Coles, clearly marked “unpasteurised”) due presumably to diplomatic pressure (vive l’France!).

    I wonder if the NSW government knows about the longstanding American “Certified Milk”regulations (which require raw milk quality to conform to government-set standards) - there is both a precedent and a template for our governements to adopt. The facility exists in other countries to allow consumer choice in this matter, and we need it here too. Now.

  42. Peter,
    Will Studd is heavily involved in the raw cheese movement (he commented on it on live TV) do a google search for will studd cheese slices and you should find his website, I have been in contact in the past he is very informative and friendly also.

  43. Join to register and join the voices asking for legalisation and certification of raw milk.

  44. Found out this weekend that the drying up of the Frenchs Forest guy has affected supply to a number of other raw milk retailers. The time for stepping up action is here - bureaucrats are dictating with what we choose to put in our mouths. Whoever these public officials are, we have to find them and convince them that the law on this matter is archaic - it stems from unsanitary conditions prevalent in the Victorian era, that either no longer exist, or can be easily overcome today. Moreover, positive regulations can be adopted that guarantee safety, instead of supress a high-quality source of nutrition. If the government can approve of an injecting room in Kings Cross for the legal consumption of heroin, ice, cocaine and prescription morphine (, then how can they protest against milk? Unless of course they consider raw milk more dangerous than heroin…

    And now for a “Living Milk” Recipie! Apparently goat’s milk is not covered by various states’ pasteurisation rules, and so can be sold. Not everyone likes it due to the gamey, goaty flavour, but I have just tried a work-around solution. Having bought the best pasteurised cow’s milk I could find (unhomogenised, organic, and full-cream - the only thing that’s been done to it is pasteurisation, leaving its enzymes stone dead), I poured a litre into a washed 2-litre screw-capped milk bottle. Then I added a litre of unpasteurised goats’ milk, brimming with living enzymes and aromatic goatiness. The result (shaken, not stirred) was quite ok - I could discern the two flavours, but the goat-tang was pleasantly reduced. So there you go.. a compromise recipie which provides (half)life taste!

    Don’t forget you can get enzymes in capsule form as well. The most common type I’ve seen in health food shops are in a mainly white opaque plastic bottle labelled “Vegetable Enzymes” (approx $26) and contain Protease (to digest proteins), Amylase (to digest carbohydrates), and lipase (to digest lipids (fats)). The best brand I have seen so far is Bio-Organics (similarly priced), packaged in a clear red plastic bottle and labelled “Essential Enzymes”. This one has not three, but six enzymes (Protease to digest protein, lipase to digest fats, Alpha Amylase to digest carbohydrates, Cellulase to digest fibre, Tilactase to digest lactose, Papain to digest protein) as well as 100mg of porcine-sourced Pancreatin ( It also contains a moderate 50mg of Betaine Hydrochloride to supplement the acidity of your gastric juices (

    Raw milk is so important for our good health as animal based forms of food are supremely enzyme-dense compared to many plant foods. For example, a salad served with a well-done steak will probably not contain sufficient enzymes to assist with the digestion of the steak (having the steak rare or blue will leave some enzymes intact and thus assist your body). Of the plant foods, the ones that I have read about so far that are relatively enzyme-dense are organic, vine-ripened avocados, mangos, and bananas.

  45. Hey Nessa! Thanks for the Will Studd info - I bought his “Cheese Slices” DVD a month or two ago, but didn’t realise he was a leader in the push for raw cheeses.

    Found this interesting article - he’s certainly putting his money where his mouth is! Three Cheers Mr Studd!

  46. Peter, are you saying that the guy at frenchs forest market no longer sells cleopatra milk? Are you kidding? Who would be complaining exactly? Everyone there is into organic products and health foods. This is absolutely ridiculous.

  47. 47. Helen Pfeil
    Nov 11th, 2007 at 5:50 pm

    The crackdown must be more widespread I think. I’m in Canberra and my local health food shop just told me that the Health Department have stopped their supplier from offering Cleopatra’s Bath Milk. I picked up my last three bottles yesterday :( I need to do some detective work to find out who is involved and who to lobby - any advice on what to say appreciated!

  48. Peter, Sauerkraut, Kimchi, traditional lacto fermented chutneys or a glass of fermented beverage like beet kvass or Kombucha will inject a healthy dose of enzymes to help you digest that steak. Also a broth made from bones or a sauce made with reduced broth will deliver gelatin which acts as a digestive aid and minerals to help with protein assimilation. Eating it rare also ensures B6 is still active helping assimilate protein. And, of course, the fat also helps. How can The Nourisher forget the most Nourishing of all, the fat. Be aware however, that although it is considered the best meat, it was not favoured by ANY ancient cultures. Instead organs were considered by far the most important portion of any beast. Lean meat was eaten dried (raw).

  49. I am ready now to email and annoy anybody that will help me get what is my right. That is to choose raw dairy products if I prefer them. I came across to the healthy way of eating and exercising from Paul Chek, who runs a Kinesiology Institute in the US. He is an amazing man and athlete who puts many younger athletes to shame and at 44 years old, has to be seen believed. Anyway, since reading his book it has lead me down the path of finding out the truth of nutrition, which in turn brought me here to this website. I had always felt something was missing in my diet, at one time doing the South Beach, taking Omegatrend and Herbal life products. I have never felt better since getting my hands on raw milk, butter, eggs, coconut and cod liver oil. I haven’t even got to the rest of the options available yet.
    There are many self interest groups out there that will make their voices heard to get what they want, nurses, the smoking lobby, pharmaceutical companies, it was people power that managed to get changes to the liquor laws, breaking the vice like grip the Hotels Association had on the government here in NSW.. we can do it and I am in full support of what Peter and Maree talk about above. I want choices on what foods I eat and I will do what it takes to get it.
    BTW I went to the article Maree added from Dairysafe Vic, I am fed up and angry that this propaganda is put out there with no supporting statements of evidence. I have written to the author of that document to register my displeasure at what she states as fact.

  50. Hi Amanda, it was Glenn who had the news about the Frenchs Forest chap, but also I had it confirmed from the place I visted yesterday that he was their wholesaler - but how many shops he was supplying, I don’t know. If the shop you use continues to sell, then they will have a different supply source.

    I plan on getting in contact with the Sydney chapter of the Weston A Price Foundation this week to see if we could get a meeting off the ground for concerned people.

    The NSW Food Authority issued a media release on 23rd October 2007:
    - this contains the blatant ERROR OF FACT (I will call it that to allow for ignorance) that “pasteurisation..has minimal effect on..nutritional value” - how can killing every single enzyme be a minimal effect? One of Dr Howell’s books (he was mentioned above) tells how scientific experiments on animals proved that those fed on pasteurised milk and cooked meat had their life spans reduced by one third, compared to those fed on raw milk and raw meat. And of course flavour is affected - that’s why the cheese lobby is pushing for raw milk cheeses, and the French insist on raw milk for cheese (bless them!).

    Their argument that raw milk has not “been through the Food Authority’s stringent food safety management programs” is correct - but the solution is simple: regulate the sale of raw milk in NSW so there is regular testing of cows, dairy staff and product, just as is already done and has been done for years in places in the United States where raw milk is officially “Certified”. It’s not impossible to do, and is the obvious way forward.

  51. It seems from the ABC article above that the NSW government Minister we need to lobby is
    The Hon. Ian Michael MacDonald, Minister for Primary Industries

  52. Hi

    My name is Nicholas, it has recently come to my notice that you and your goverment officials are currently trying to stop the sale of Raw milk ( for Cosmetic purposes), i am a person who purchases this raw dairy product. My health is dependent on this product, the lable on the milk cleary states “for Cosmetic purposes only” the suppliers do not sell this product
    for human consumption, however if the consumer chooses to consume this product this is the consumers constitutional right and no goverment or any other person has the right to take this choice away from us.

    there is a massive underground market for this product, if the goverment does not want it underground then legalise it and regulate it. Just as any illigal substance it will always find its market anyway.

    i will be joining the campain legal and otherwise to stop my right to “freedom of choice” taken away, you can be sure that there will be a huge wave of people joining me.

    please allow raw milk products to be sold, better still regulate it so the conditions for healthy raw milk is maintained.


  53. I recently posted about the Raw Milk shenanigans all over the world. It is a full scale world wide attack. But The Nourisher is here to save the day. I’ll put some ideas together for a post that will help everyone pen their own letters and emails to their local MPs and the the honourable Ian MacDonald.

    Arabella, Melbourne WAPF chapter leader and organiser of recently went to the Dairy Assoc Conference. They spoke about Raw Milk and said there would be no certification until there was consumer demand. So telling your friends about raw milk and getting them to register with will help. But how can you introduce people to raw milk if their is none to give them to try?

    Try creating a herd share local to you. That way you’ll sit out this raw milk drought in relative comfort and be able to build a new movement in food politics. One that creates local economies, increases consumer responsibility and takes back the power from Big Agricorp. Slowly..slowly..we will win.

  54. the above is what i wrote in an email to Ian Macdonald ,im not sure what i should have written(im not experienced at writting to goverment) but at least iv spoken my truth, i urge every body to write. I for one am willing to fight this ignorence, we put up with living in a system (corperate machien) that suppresses and controls our lives. We are told we have free will, yet in this culture by the time we have finished school we are sufficiently confused and or indoctranated and to add to this most likely Addicted, it can take years if not a life time to see through the lies and by then we are dependent on the machien. There is a way out and not unlike the matrix(the movie) it is by seeing reality, however its not as easy as taking a pill, i belive we have to see through our own internal mental/emotional illusions, in my experience (my daily practice)this takes great amount of consciosness built up through diligent and persistant witnessing of ones own conditioning.

  55. I contacted Mr. MacDonald via Email on the 8th of October after noticing his comments in a local newspaper. I will await a response and then publish both on this forum. It was very interesting to note that he actually grew up within the dairy industry, and most likely therefore drank raw milk like every other dairy family I know. I took up this point in my email as it suggests that there are agendas other than ignorance at play.

  56. Helen,
    I might have a cowshare available in a couple of my cows (jerseys) next year if you’re interested-I’m one hour from Canberra and I plan to start coming across to the farmers markets next year. As already stated I’ll have various cosmetic sheep milk products from next year-prices in above post plus postage.

  57. Nessa,
    Thanks! I’m very interested - please count me in if your Jersey shares become available. I’ll contact you by email.

    I have heard that the reason Cleopatra’s Bath is gone at my local health food shop is that the wholesaler had also been selling a raw yoghurt - i guess there were no appropriate caveats about ‘not for human consumption’ - they will no longer be supplying Ceopatra’s milk or the yoghurt, but i don’t think other wholesalers are affected so long as they stick to the cosmetic rules. Might this be what happened to the French’s forest guy?

  58. Hi Nessa and Helen (and everyone else),

    Nessa - I too would be very interested in raw Jersey milk I too am in Canberra and it looks like my store can no longer get Cleopatra’s either we usually go through approx 20 litres a week (family of 4-5). Please keep me on your radar for next year.

    Helen - where do you usually get your milk from? I was getting mine from Wilson’s Organics in Farrer, I have heard that Mountain Creek Wholefoods in Griffith are still getting some so perhaps they are through another supplier I will have to find out.

    Cheers Jodie

  59. Hi
    If you are living near the Sydney City area, here are the places where you can buy raw milk.

    * Dr Earth Health Foods - 311 King St Newtown 2042 9519 3495 Cleopatra

    * Alf-Alfa House Co-Operative - 113 Enmore Rd Newtown 2042 9519 3374
    Cleopatra or Aphrodite (from Victoria)

    Macro in Bondi (near the mall) Raw goats milk

    Newly opened Dr Earth in Bondi last week !!! YES (the walkway, in front of KFC) Cleopatra

    I have been to these places and i recommend them =D Dr Earth sells cheap Cleopatra at $5.75 altho the one in Bondi is abit expensive $6

    The goat milks are about 2x the price of raw cow milks

  60. Thanks for the Sydney locationss Yudha.

    I was getting my milk from As Nature Intended in Belconnen (Canberra). Yes - they had a different wholesaler to Mountain Creek and are looking into switching to Mountain Creek’s supplier themselves. If that works out, I’ll let everyone know. Another possibility might be doing a group order through the ANU Food Co-op? We use 8-10L/week, so between us and Jodie, that’s 30L already. Any others in Canberra?

  61. Hello Helen I live in canberra and am very interested in procuring a reliable source of raw milk i use about 6 litres a week my email is I used to get cleopatras milk from a health food store at belconnen markets and was very frustrated to find that the wholesaler had been banned from distributing it. Dose anyone know who to write to to complain of this undignified patronization of my choice to consume the foods of my choice!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  62. Just an update on the Raw Milk issue in NSW.

    I went into Pure Wholefoods in Manly today and they told me that Cleopatra’s was no longer available and that all supply had been cut due to the NSW Food Authority crackdown.

    I phoned their supplier, who are called Eco Farms, and a lady informed me that it was in fact Eco Farms’ decision to cut supply and that no one else had ordered them to do so. But Eco Farms on the other hand seem to be telling the shops they sell to (at least they told Pure Wholefoods) that they have been forced to stop supplying the milk.
    However, it seems that they are just taking a precautionary measure because of what has happened over the last few weeks. I was also told by the lady that Eco Farms may in fact start supplying again at some time in the near future.

    I’m not sure how many outlets Eco Farms have been supplying, but please be aware that if you go into a shop and are told that Cleos is no longer available because supply has been cut off due to NSW Food Authority restrictions, firstly ask them whether they are supplied by Eco Farms and, if so, tell them that they have been misinformed.

    As far as I know, all the other suppliers of Cleos are still selling to stores. But if you come across a store which does not supply anymore because they can’t get it, put them onto:

    Vin, from A2 Milk.

    Phone 9980 1770

    So that they can order more in for you.

    Finally, I would also like to mention that it is imperative that we (and particularly the sellers of Cleos) respect what the legislation currently is with regards to milk being sold for cosmetic or ‘not for human consumption’ and refrain from making a mockery out of it by openly and/or brazenly advertising or flaunting it as a consumable item (including making yoghurt out of it, which is clearly not for bathing with).

    This is exactly what a certain stallholder at an organic market here in Sydney has been doing and it is because of this that (I believe) he is now in such deep doo doo with the authorities.

    I think his actions may also have largely precipitated the ‘crackdown’ as we know it, and I sincerely hope that this crackdown will not discourage other suppliers from selling Cleos in future.

    Don’t get me wrong, I think his intentions were good, but I think the way he went about it was not all that wise.

    To be honest, as long as raw milk is available for cosmetic uses, it is still a darn sight better than it not being available at all.

    With regards to changing of the legislation in future, I believe that this will take time and one of the worst things we could do is to disrespect the authorities and give them the impression that we are their arch enemy. I personally feel sorry for them more than anything else. Imagine being so blinded by Junk Science?

    I think that these things take time and sometimes no amount of lobbying or petitioning can really change people’s mind – at least until there is a changing of the guard.

    That is not to say though that we should not make the effort to have out voices heard. Just that I think we will be seen as more legitimate if we don’t blatantly disrespect or criticise those who will ultimately have the final say about whether to change it.

    That’s my 2 cents worth anyway.

    Happy Bathing!

  63. Helen, we also go through 8 - 10 litre a week of cleo’s and would be interested in the co-op idea. I’d like to support the local businesses, but if they have problems with what appears to be the one remaining supplier …………
    I have exchanged emails with Nessa about the farmers markets in Canberra. It’s not confirmed, but looks like early in the new year for the sheep’s milk, and mid ‘08 for cow’s milk. Stay tuned.

  64. Hi all,

    Thanks for the supplier info! I had the same story from Trevor at Cleo’s. Guy - Ada at the Belconnen Markets store has contacted the new supplier and is now anticipating a delivery next week. I’m very grateful to Ada for organising this - I have been a very persistent customer! Hopefully the supply chain can be restored across NSW if we contact and support our usual store owners/stallholders. I do agree about the importance of honouring the authorities on this too - thanks PDAV. It’s a timely reminder which will help me pen some respectful letters.

  65. Great research PDAV & Helen!

    I fully support PDAV’s comments regarding being courteous to the authorities. Antagonising our representatives works against us, not for us. Our real opponents are profit-over-health driven corporations and those whom they might enlist with “research grants” - they want to influence OUR representatives to further the profits of their businesses at the expense of our health and nutrition. We have to politely, patiently but persistently cut through the junk science and paid propaganda and approach the authorities with the truths about the beneficial nature of raw milk, in a way that does not put our cause backward. As the authorities are naturally inclined to regulating and inspecting things for public safety, I’m thinking that by offering them an established and ready-made solution in the form of America’s milk certification rules (as listed in “The Milk Book: The Milk of Human Kindness is not Pasteurised” by William Campbell Douglas II, MD) it might enhance their receptiveness in recognising the importance and value of what should be one of the premier foods in the organic food market.

    PDAV’s right that it might take a while, but the journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step.. Many of those campaigning 40 years ago for good health by banning smoking may not be still with us to see today’s banning of smoking in pubs and clubs, but they campaigned all the same… and eventually changed public opinion. Let us hold them as worthy role models.

  66. Hi Joanne et al,
    Organic Pastures have put up some sample letters that I thought might help you in writing your own - they are obviously directed to their legislative issue in California but perhaps with a bit of rewording we could use them for our own good here. The address is, I would absolutely be willing to put my name and my families names on anything you come up with, I’m not too good at writing letters like that as the anger would get in the way and I don’t think that would help. Also for the Canberrans here Wilson’s Organics should also be getting some raw milk back into stock either this week or next week - I CAN’T WAIT!!!!

    Cheers Jodie

  67. I have found another organic shop selling cleopatra’s “bath” milk

    It’s called 7th Heaven in Randwick, Sydney just beside the shopping center on the main street.

    It sells quite an array of stuffs and i think it worths a visit.

  68. I have just found out that apparently Eco Farms were also transporting Cleopatra’s Milk on UN - refridgerated trucks, perhaps this is another reason why they were stopped from selling it especially coming into summer. I wish I had of known that earlier it would have explained why my milk wasn’t always fridge cold when I picked it up especially if I picked it up just after delivery. I will be checking from now on that my milk has come from a refridgerated transport vehicle. It might be something worth checking with your supplier too.

    Cheers Jodie

  69. Does anybody know if any of the major parties are more sympathetic to the natural food way? I suppose that could also reas which party isn’t as far into bed with the major corporations.
    I learnt something regarding Cleopatra too. The story is that supply might be stopped because they have the reference to the WestonAPrice website on the label of the milk containers.
    Who says we have freedom of choice?
    BTW. i couldn’t sleep, so i got up and had a tall glass of it. Man, it tastes good!

  70. Comments on the parties here:

    We are honoured you would share your night waking hours with us Glenn.

    Yesterday I was interviewed by The Age, melb. They’re doing a special on raw milk on Sunday. Watch out for it

  71. hehe… thanks Joanne. Thank you for the information. Hmmm… just had a look at the other article, more confused than ever.
    I don’t believe in Kyoto ( must confess I am skeptic)… I have read too much damning information on Al Gore and the inconvenient truth team lately.. especially from Aussie scientist Bob Carter. If I ignore Saturday will it go away? I honestly think people power will win the day here eventually, if we leave it to the pollies we have no hope.

  72. Thanks Maree. I saw that this morning and here’s my comments.

  73. Thanks for posting the interview Maree. i had a look for the interview yesterday, but couldn’t locate it. It’s an interesting read
    I note with interest that Dr Astin provided comments for the article… I wrote to her recently, funny i haven’t received a reply. I can’t say that i expected any kind of response really.

  74. What did you write Glenn? Could you share in a comment or a guest post. Email me if you want to guest post on this blog by using the contact form above.

  75. Since I wrote that comment i have discovered that she indeed had written a reply. I am happy to put both my email and reply up. i will put both in successive comments.

  76. Dear Dr Astin,

    I refer to your recent release on “cosmetic” dairy products. I find it particularly distressing that you make these exaggerated claims about the safety of such products, when in fact you would likely find a level of hygiene equal to and exceeding most food preparation centres.

    The people that would desire to add raw dairy to their diet, have made a commitment to put food/fuel into their bodies that enhance their wellbeing and longevity. It would therefore make no sense that these people would put themselves at risk. Contrary to your claims that pasteurization is safe and has little influence on flavour and nutrition, the process leaves milk dead, devoid of any benefits that raw milk can provide. A little digging will find that pasteurization has in fact contributed to many of the malades that modern living causes. Without even bringing raw milk into the equation, there is numerous evidence that pasteurized dairy products contribute to allergies, upper respiratory infections, strep infections, rheumatoid arthritis to name a few.

    While there has been a perceived need for pasteurization in history for example in the early 1900s in the US, there is hardly a need for it now. History says that it was the method of milk handling and feeding that caused the perceived problems with milk in those times. If other food industries practiced the same methods of dairies of those times, we would all be sick no matter what we eat or drink.

    If people wish to believe what all the government and corporate advisers tell them, that is fine but we should have the right to choice on whether we drink raw or pasteurized milk. It is my right to consume raw dairy products if I choose to do so and if i want to lead a long healthy life free of the threat of heart disease, stroke and other ailments, I will do whatever it takes to achieve that goal.

    The evidence doesn’t lie, governments,self interest groups and corporations do.

    Glenn Wright

  77. Dear Mr Wright

    Thank you for this email expressing your opinion on the topic of “cosmetic” dairy products. In correspondence to the Weekly Times, I have acknowledged that consumers have the right to their choice of food as long as the safety of the product can be assured. Furthermore, I acknowledge that there is conflicting information in the public domain regarding the case for and against the benefits and risks associated with raw milk and raw milk products.

    Given the equivocal nature of this information, and the reliability of some sources, my release serves to provide a caution to both consumers and retailers of food who are not always aware of the potential risks as well as potential benefits associated with products available for sale. My intention is for the public to make their decisions and choices based on all available information.

    In your email, you acknowledge that pasteurisation in the past was an effective public health measure and this remains an effective measure today.

    I support innovation in the food industry in the interests of improved health and wellbeing. This should not, however, increase the consumer’s exposure to unnecessary risk. This is the role that governments have had and will continue to perform to ensure the protection of public health and safety.


    Anne Astin

  78. Some good news just in from from Organic Pastures Dairy in California USA

    The Final Push


    Get Serious with the Secretary of Agriculture


    As a direct result of your actions last week, we now have the support of all key assembly representatives to overturn AB 1735.

    However, your assemblymen have expressed concern that we do not have the support of the California Secretary of Agriculture, Mr. A.G. Kawamura.

    He appears to be the last raw milk challenge standing.

    It is critical that we create an avalanche of political pressure like last week, only stronger in message (see below). Please focus all of your efforts on A.G. Kawamura.

    Contact the CA Secretary of Agriculture immediately!

    Please call him today and send out as many letters and faxes as possible.

    A.G. Kawamura
    Secretary of Food and Agriculture
    1220 N St., Suite 400
    Sacramento, Ca. 95814
    Phone: (916) 654-0321 or (916) 654-0433
    Fax: 916-654-0403

    The message to him should be very strong, yet respectful. The talking points we suggest may sound harsh but they reflect the truth (see “Background” below). The Secretary needs to know what has happened on his watch:

    Certain corrupt staff members within CDFA have personal prejudice against raw milk. They have participated and conspired in an illegal, secret, and silent process to deny California consumers their access to raw milk.

    Demand that the Ag Secretary use his power to immediately suspend or reverse AB 1735 and the “less-than-10 coliform” standard for raw milk in California.

    Demand that the CDFA staff who misrepresented raw milk science and snuck the groundless coliform standard into AB 1735 be dismissed immediately.


    We have discovered that certain staff members in CDFA actually committed crimes by “introducing negative language into a bill which would be applied to an industry which it regulates.” This is outrageous illegal activity; it defies written administrative policy and must not be tolerated within CDFA. The normal legal process requires CDFA to bring any legislative language to the attention of the governors office prior to contacting an assembly committee. CDFA misrepresented facts, claiming AB 1735 was so insignificant that it could be handled “as a consent item” and did not require discussion or debate. Other substantial and material misstatements of fact also occurred to keep AB 1735 secret and silent.

    This is the big event we have all been working towards. It may be the last effort needed to overcome AB 1735. Please call today and send your letters.

    A note from your friends at Organic Pastures
    Q. Will Organic Pastures Dairy Company be going out of business in Jan. 2008?

    A. HEAVENS, NO - We are growing!

    Please rest 100% assured, dear customers, that Organic Pastures Grass-Fed Organic Raw Milk will be sold throughout California after January, 2008. We are adding more organic cows and even building a new creamery!
    We are also expanding our marketing and education efforts to better serve you. OPDC has pioneered grass fed raw milk for the 21st century and we intend to continue building a world of happy and healthy people.

    All the best, the OPDC team.

  79. I am so sick and tired of all this pussyfooting. Something has to be done to make the sale of raw milk legal again, so that farmers can come out and just sell it as milk, for human consumption, with strict regualtions on the health of the cows or the goats that supply the unpasteurised milk.

    Macro at hornsby won’t carry it, simply because of the way it is sold. For ‘Cosmetic purposes’, not for drinking.

    I managed to buy unpasteurised cheese, but it was made in ITALY! I would like to buy Aussie made unpasteurised dairy. I love the italian made cheese, but well, support Aussie farmers is what I want to do, but there is no way I am going to cook with pasteurised cheese. Why would I ‘double pasteurise’ it? Being pasteurised destroys most of the goodness in it anyway, why would I want to make it even more plastic?

    I don’t even understand the need for pasteurisation. If raw milk was so bad, the human race would have died out long before Louis Pasteur was around to spoil things for the rest of us.

    There was a time for this invention as people were getting sick, but i question even the need for it back then. People were getting sick from drinking DIRTY milk. Instead of heat treating the milk, he should have come up with another form of ‘pasteurisation’ like a LAW stating that the cattle providing us with the milk, should be disease free.

    Heck if he did not do it, why can’t the modern government of today, legalise the sale and human consumption of raw milk, and pass a law stating that the animals providing the milk, should be certified organic and healthy and the consequences of the failure to meet this requirement, could result in severe fines or some such.

    The bottom line is we should have access to fresh, whole, healthy milk that has not been tampered with. Alot of our problems with dairy is due to pasteurisation, simply due to the destruction of valuable vitamins and enzymes that are naturally available within raw milk.

    I gave Cleo’s milk to my toddler, drank it while I was in the final stages of my pregnancy with my second one who is now one.My children have no adverse effects at all.

    My in laws were raised on raw milk, drank raw milk during pregnancies and gave birth to healthy children.

    A few weeks back, I watched on the news that the government is lifting the ban on GM foods. That pissed me off no end. I’ll be darned if I feed my family GM foods. I don’t believe in the Genetic modification of foods simply because those type pf foods are not readily occuring in nature. They are modified because of human tampering.

    So good, raw milk will make us sick, but GM foods are okay? They must stark raving mad.

  80. That Dr. Astin sounds as about as knowledgeable on public health as a gnat. If pasteurisation was so good, how is it that the incidence of dairy allergy is on the rise?

    Yet there are people who with this problem, who have had raw milk and had no problems, until they went back to the pasteurised rubbish. How is she going to explain that ‘phenomena’?

    I blame all the physical ills that the modern society faces on the lousy, so called healthy food our mothers were forced to eat by lies provided by the government in relation to good healthy food.

    If we eat lousy food, we are going to produce offspring that will be of lesser strength and health. Our children’s bodies will not be able to tolerate as much as we were once able to. The number of children suffering from all kinds of allergies, some even dying from those allergies are all due to the new fangled, tampered rubbish that our shelves are stocked with, that we as mothers have little choice but to eat as we put our faith in the government to do the right thing by us.

    We need to return to a more natural state of affairs and raw milk is just one part of it. I wish that i could go back in time and warn Louis Pasteur of the monster he was creating. It is said that on his death bed, he had admitted that he had done the wrong thing.

    I demand to see raw milk on sale, legally and the availability of fresh untampered food to us all.

  81. I’ll be completely honest, reading your posts fills me with rage.

    Why do they fill me with rage? Because you people believe that you have more knowledge and understanding about the pasteurisation of milk than scientists and doctors who have studied for years and researched and experimented, possibly for decades.

    Nothing any of you say is backed up by anything more than personal opinions and anecdotes.

    Believing that you know better (as a parent/individual) than a highly educated, well-trained doctor or scientist is nothing but arrogance and ignorance of the highest degree.

    Scientific experiments and trials are designed to remove as much personal bias as possible from results. They are repeated time and time again and they are also repeated by different institutes in separate countries who are not in communication with each other.

    They perform experiments and trials in this way to help ensure that the results seen are not merely flukes or coincidence and are as accurate as possible.

    Opinions and personal anecdotes are not accurate evidence and should not be treated as such. Believing that they are and listening to ones own intuition as opposed to thinking rationally is a dangerous practice. By drinking unpasteurised milk you are putting your and your child’s health at risk.

    Pasteurised milk helps to protect against tuberculosis, diphtheria, polio, salmonella, strep throat, scarlet fever and typhoid fever

    All of the above are dangerous. Most can be deadly.

    I am shocked and appalled that you would put your children’s lives at risk because of ridiculous ideas about pasteurisation removing nutrients from milk and leading to dairy allergies. Feeding them unpasteurised milk that is not considered fit for human consumption by most western nations is tantamount to child abuse.

  82. Hey Tres,

    We are all for healthy discussion @ Nourished Magazine. It is awesome to see you filled with so much passion for this subject and particularly your interest in the safety of the younger ones.

    To facilitate further discussion you may have noticed the checkbox at the bottom of this comment form. This checkbox gives you an opportunity to monitor any responses to your comment, and keep yourself involved in the discussion. There are 11 subscribers to this post, and this being a hot topic and your opinion being a departure from the thread of the discussion, I am sure a handful of them would love to debate you on some of the points you have made.

    I hope you come back to this post to check on comments, and perhaps you could make use of the follow-up comments notification service in future.

    Cheers, Wes

  83. Most things that can be contracted by raw milk are due to diseased animals and poor hygiene-make sure you know the pros and cons before you leap. Tuberculosis is non-existent in Australia (and nearly all civilised countries-all animals supplying milk should be tested for it anyhow)-ask you local vet. Raw milk is a delicate product that should be treated with the caution and respect it deserves, and it should be freely available to those that wish to consume it with the appropriate warnings on the bottle. Many doctors leap to conclusions when told their patient is drinking raw milk-often to the determent of the patient in diagnosing the actual cause if the sickness. If raw milk was so dangerous my whole family (and my ancestors) would be dead-my mother fed us all raw milk and drank it while pregnant with absolutely no ill effect, we never even had chicken pox due to the immunity that the cow’s passed on against cow pox, all the other children in our class had it repeatedly. However any animals supplying raw milk for human consumption should be vaccinated and tested for all diseases-this goes against organic principles (which could encourage disease-no matter what anyone says, herbs won’t stop or cure you of tetanus or most other major diseases), we have advanced animal care and we should use it (how would you feel if your children or loved ones, or even your pet, was deprived of advanced medical care?). My nest door neighbour is organic, he treats mastitis with comfrey-every cow he has treated like this has died-I very rarely have mastitis and if I do I follow my vets advice, I have never lost an animal. He also doesn’t vaccinate and many of his animals die a horrible death if tetanus, blackleg and pulpy kidney, I’ve never lost one. Organic animals are definitely not treated more humanely then in conventional farming, maybe even less so, and most husbandry procedures carried out in conventional farming can also be used in organic (ie tail docking, mulesing, dehorning) they are also no more or less sustainable than a conventionally run environmentally aware farm. I agree that feeding hormones and antibiotics to make animals grow faster should be banned-I only ever use antibiotics on a vet’s prescription and triple withholding periods and I never use hormones, I try to use homeopathic remedies wherever practical. Feed lotting is also terrible. My animals are free-range also.
    Just my 5 cents (and no offence to organic farms, just my view and technique),

  84. I would be intereted in reading a response to the above comment from Sallie from Aphrodite Dairy.
    Her bath milk is certified organic and unpasturised. I wonder how many of their cows have died over the 10 years that their farm has been organic? We have been drinking Aphrodite since May this year, including my daughter, and we arent dying from any diseases! Quite the opposite!!! To Tres, may i suggest an anger mangement technique…… a tall glass of raw milk sipped serenly in the sunshine, that should turn that frown upside down!!!!!!!!! Megan.

  85. I’m sure their farm is lovely-there are good and bad farms in all genres-however there simply has to be more fatalities in organic farming, animals (just like humans :-)) get ill and homeopathic remedy’s only go so far. Maybe she uses traditional treatments when necessary than culls the now non-organic animal? In America the organic I’ve heard that the organic code is different, that they can use ivomec to drench and vaccinate? How many people here have had their children and pets vaccinated, or give their dog heartworm meds? I just believe that animals have a right to care too. It has been a bad year for pulpy kidney this year, we vaccinated, a bio-dynamic farm in the district did not, 50 of his lambs died horrible deaths. Another example: a ewe here needed a c-section which required anaesthetic and antibiotics after-how is this situation handled on an organic farm? I could have saved myself $300 and shot the ewe and delivered the lambs my self-but I didn’t think it would be humane. How about broken legs requiring antibiotics? And assisted births which vets recommend antibiotics after? What about iodine teat dip? There are many different views and I think everyone should do what they believe in. I’m not against organic farming at all-I’m just very concerned for my animals well being and so far no one has been able to convince me a world with out advanced treatments can be better for them. Here are a couple of links:
    Our animals are vaccinated and wormed about 1-2 times a year, only extremely ill animals are given antibiotics (always with the vets advice), we have used antibiotics twice in the last 4 years.

  86. Tres,
    I personally don’t need a scientist to tell me what I know works for me and my kids. In the time that I drank it, whilst pregnant and my two year old drank it, we suffered no ill health.

    My husband’s ancestors have drunk raw milk, my in laws, who are Australian dairy farmers drank it, as babies. My father in law grew up to be a little over 6ft2 and drank the stuff from nine months of age.

    My own husband grew up on raw milk, he is now 42, but will put and has put 20 year old men to shame with his strength.

    I grew up on pasteurised milk and hated the taste of it, but drank it as it is the only source of milk in the country that I come from. I never liked milk from that, until I cam to Australia, love the Aussie milk and then even more, the raw variety.

    As a matter of fact, both my children are healthy, even the baby that I was carrying while I drank raw milk.

    As I have said, if raw milk is bad, then everyone would have died out before Pasteur was even born.

    Raw milk is natural. Breast milk is also raw too and will carry the pathogens the mother has as well as the goodness.

    Granted, if the animal supplying the milk is diseased, then yes, we will get the disease too, but clean, raw milk, from healthy animals is not harmful.

    All I am saying is, if you have read my post properly, is pass a law that allows for the sale of raw milk on the proviso that the animal is certifed clean, healthy and Organic.

    You know what really fills me with rage, though? Is all the food manufacturers, putting rubbish in our food and then worse of all marketing it to our children and even those who claim that low fat and soy milk is good for you, even better than cows milk! I ask you, how can something synthetic be better than the real thing? Even the other time, when my daughter had gone to coles with my mum and came back with artificially flavoured milk. That really angered me, especially as the back said it was low fat, as children need the good fats, which low fat milk has very little of and it was marketed at children.These people who deliberately tempt our children with rubbish are the ones we should be angry at.

    I would rather give my daughters raw milk, from clean animals, than feed them the processed rubbish these people throw at our children.

  87. I can’t help but laugh loud and long at the rubbish Tres posted in her comments. Do you know what? You go ahead and drink your pasteurised milk. The rest of us will take comfort in the knowledge that we get the “NATURAL” goodness that milk provides.
    You talk about arrogance and ignorance, I find it rather absurd that people think that scientists can even begin to improve on nature. If you would do your homework before spouting off the uninformed belief that scientists work for the common good, I would suggest you go and find out how much money these same scientists make from corporations to bias the results in their favour. Then there is the other more frightening fact, pressure from the pharmaceutical companies to influence agencies meant to protect us into releasing products before they are ready… now that is FACT! Do a search on GARDASIL and you will see something frightening happening there.
    Oh and one more thing… you want information to back our claims, the truth has always been out there, just conveniently ignored.

  88. Tres,

    The science has been done!! Read about the famous raw milk cat studies that Pottenger did.

    Taken from Dr Ron Schmid’s website:

    Pottenger’s studies on raw milk
    Now what Pottenger actually did in some of his experiments is this. He used four groups of cats. All received for one-third of the diet raw meat. The other two-thirds was either raw milk or various heat-treated milks. The raw milk/raw meat diet produced many generations of healthy cats. Those fed pasteurized milk showed skeletal changes, decreased reproductive capacity, and infectious and degenerative diseases.

    Now just who was Pottenger? He was the son of the physician who founded the once famous Pottenger Sanatorium for treatment of tuberculosis in Monrovia, California. He completed his residency at Los Angeles County Hospital in 1930 and became a full-time assistant at the Sanatorium. From 1932 to 1942, he also conducted what became known as the Pottenger Cat Study.

    In 1940, he founded the Francis M Pottenger, Jr. Hospital at Monrovia. Until closing in 1960, the hospital specialized in treating non-tubercular diseases of the lung, especially asthma.

    Dr. Pottenger was a regular and prolific contributor to the medical and scientific literature. He served as president of several professional organizations, including the Los Angeles County Medical Association, the American Academy of Applied Nutrition, and the American Therapeutic Society. He was a member of a long list of other professional organizations.

    ‘Clinical Evidences of the Value of Raw Milk’
    Pottenger’s experiments met the most rigorous scientific standards. His outstanding credentials earned him the support of prominent physicians. Alvin Foord, M.D., Professor of Pathology at the University of Southern California and pathologist at the Huntington Memorial Hospital in Pasadena, co-supervised with Pottenger all pathological and chemical findings of the study. One particular question that modern science has largely ignored was addressed: What is the nutritive value of heat-labile elements-nutrients destroyed by heat and available only in raw foods?

    I’ll quote some of Pottenger’s work directly. First, from his article ‘Clinical Evidences of the Value of Raw Milk:’

    ‘Some of the factors transmitted by milk are thermo-labile (sensitive to heat). Though their destruction may not produce death, their deficiency may prevent proper development of the child. This may show in the development of an inadequate skeleton or a decrease in resistance….delay in development of osseous centers is noted more frequently in those children…receiving heat treated milk. It is particularly absent from the raw milk fed children….I am basing this discussion on analysis of 150 children whose parents have consulted me because of respiratory allergies….many other workers…have also shown that treating milk by heating interferes with its proper assimilation and nutritional qualities….The best milk from a nutritional standpoint is raw milk….Heat-treating milk interferes with calcium metabolism causing…delay in bone age, and small bones….The interference with calcium metabolism as shown in the bones in only a physiological index of disturbed metabolism throughout the body.’

    Speaking for myself—I personally have prescribed raw milk from grass-fed animals to my patients for nearly fifteen years. Time and again I have seen allergies clear up and dramatically improved health. Particularly in children, middle ear infections usually disappear and do not recur on raw milk. Both children and adults unable to drink pasteurized milk without problems have thrived on raw milk. In hundreds-perhaps thousands- of my patients using raw milk, not one has ever developed a Salmonella, Campylobacter, or other raw milk related infection.

    In the letter cited above, the state epidemiologist states that ‘The processes of certification and/or inspection do not guarantee that raw milk will not be contaminated with pathogenic organisms.’ He also lists a host of microorganisms that are alleged to be transmitted by raw milk consumption, not mentioning that, as the literature accompanying his letter makes clear, the only organisms even potentially associated with the consumption of certified raw milk are Salmonella and Campylobacter. And in one of the articles he cites, ‘The Hazard in Consuming Raw Milk’ (in The Western Journal of Medicine), the authors write that ‘Salmonella and Campylobacter diseases in humans are generally not serious. But in persons with compromised health (particularly those with malignant conditions and immunosuppressed by disease or therapy), these infections may be serious.’

    So, the gist of the state’s argument against certified raw milk is that it might possibly on isolated occasions cause serious disease in some people whose immune systems have been compromised by the toxic effects of chemotherapy. And those of us who might choose to drink certified raw milk for the benefits I have catalogued should be denied that right.”

    Fortunately, the members of the Environmental Committee saw through the shallowness of the state’s argument and voted in favor of raw milk.

    Milk in History and Evolution

    Is milk a ‘natural’ food for humans?
    Not everyone agrees that milk should be part of the human diet after infancy. The argument is made that just as all other species drink no milk after weaning, neither should we, especially that of another species. Many adults have difficulty digesting pasteurized milk, and allergies to pasteurized milk products are common. While this lends credence to arguments against milk, such reactions are usually due to pasteurization itself and the poor quality of conventionally produced milk and milk products. While for some individuals genetic influences play a role, for most the body’s reaction to milk depends largely upon the quality and state of the particular milk used.

    The Swiss of the Loetschental Valley were one of the few native groups Weston Price studied that used milk (the others were certain African tribes, including the Masai). The Valley people used raw, whole milk, both fresh and cultured, cheese, and butter, all in substantial quantities. The milk was from healthy, grass-fed animals and was used unpasteurized and unhomogenized. Such foods clearly can play a major role in a health-building program for the individual genetically enabled to utilize these foods well. They are a rich source of fat-soluble vitamins A and D and other crucial nutrients in short supply in diets lacking in high quality animal fats. (Contrary to popular opinion, liberal amounts of animal fats, particularly from grass-fed animals, are essential for good health and resistance to disease.)

    Other sources of the vitamins and minerals found in raw whole milk
    Yet we could attain optimal health without dairy foods. Price discovered groups with complete resistance to dental decay and chronic disease using no dairy foods; their diets invariably included other rich sources of animal fats, calcium, and other minerals. The soft ends of long bones were commonly chewed, and the shafts and other bones were used in soups.

    Modern medicine has discovered the importance of a substantial intake of calcium. Several recent studies have linked high blood pressure and other problems with chronic subclinical calcium deficiency, including increased incidence of colon and prostate cancers in men and osteoporosis and osteoarthritis in both men and women. Paradoxically, other problems are associated with high consumption of dairy foods; this has not gone unnoticed by researchers, nutritionists, and nutrition minded physicians. The importance of the quality and freshness of milk products lies behind the paradox. This concept has not been considered in attempts by today’s medical community to explain the health effects of dairy foods.

    Traditional consumption of raw milk
    Domesticated animals were first used for milk eight to ten thousand years ago, as a genetic change effecting mostly people in Europe, the Middle East, and parts of Africa enabled them to digest milk as adults. Milk from domesticated animals then began to become important as a human food. With domestication and settlement, fewer wild animals were available; as groups of people roamed less, they hunted less, eating more grains and vegetables. In some cultures, milk replaced animal bones as the chief source of calcium and some other minerals.

    In indigenous cultures where adults used milk, often it was used as cultured or clabbered milk. This is similar to homemade raw yogurt, and it is partially predigested-much of the lactose (milk sugar) has been broken down by bacterial action. This process must be accomplished over a period of several hours in the stomach when one drinks fresh milk; yogurt or clabbered milk is much more easily digested than fresh milk.

    Adaptations in evolution are always the effects of particular causes. Humans developing the ability to digest milk into adulthood possessed a survival advantage; such change is the basis of evolution. Put simply, many human beings evolved the ability to easily digest raw milk because raw milk from healthy, grass-fed animals gave them an adaptive advantage; it made them stronger and more able to reproduce. Such milk remains a wonderful food that provides us with fat-soluble nutrients, calcium, and other minerals that are by and large in short supply in the modern diet.

    The right to consume raw milk today
    In the six years since I presented the testimony quoted above, I have become more convinced than ever of the value and importance of raw milk in the dietary of people of all ages. For many of the people who eat in the manner I recommend, raw milk is the chief source of enzymes. I believe enzymes are a critical component in recovering from disease and establishing and maintaining health. Hundreds of people I’ve seen have used Local Farm raw milk as an essential part of their naturopathic treatment.

    There isn’t a day that goes by that I’m not thankful that I live in a state where bureaucrats and medical monopolists have not stripped us of what should be an inalienable, constitutional right. I mean the right to purchase raw milk and other healthy, locally produced foods directly from the people who produce them.

    It’s impossible to overestimate the importance of the work Debra Tyler and farmers like her are doing. I long to see the day when all Americans have the right to purchase locally produced raw milk, meat, fowl, and other farm products direct from the farmers who produce them. The day when the current yoke of prohibitions and bureaucratic red tape has been thrown off, and we once again are free to produce and consume truly healthy foods. The men and women who founded this country did not intend for commercial interests to control the food supply and thus our health. These are rights of the people, and they are rights that have been stripped away. We need to work together to regain them.

    Dr. Ron Schmid has practiced as a licensed naturopathic physician in Connecticut since graduating from the National College of Naturopathic Medicine in 1981. A graduate of the Massachusetts Institute of Technology as well, he has taught courses and seminars in nutrition at all four of the accredited naturopathic medical schools in the United States. He served for a year as the first Clinic Director and Chief Medical Officer at the University of Bridgeport College of Naturopathic Medicine. He is a member of the American Association of Naturopathic Physicians and the Connecticut Society of Naturopathic Physicians, and is on the Honorary Board of the Weston A. Price Foundation. He is also the manufacturer of 100% pure, additive free nutritional supplements. Dr. Schmid is the author of Traditional Foods Are Your Best Medicine, first published in 1986.

  89. Tres, watch this YouTube “The Whole Truth About Milk: Raw vs. Pasteurized” and you can see the truth about milk with your own eyes.

  90. Good news for Raw Milk!!


    California’s raw milk supply will NOT be interrupted in
    January, 2008 or beyond!

    It will be a happy, healthy New Year indeed! California consumers have spoken loudly against AB 1735’s biased, scientifically unsupported restrictions on raw milk. Your passionate voices have been heard.

    In the last three weeks, the CA raw milk battle front has been abuzz with tremendous grass roots effort, back stage political activity, and high level meetings. As a result, the course of California raw milk history has been changed.

    Here is a brief update of the progress:

    Three things protect your raw milk in California:

    The Secretary of Agriculture has offered political support. A.G. Kawamura has dedicated himself to safe raw milk for California, declaring that “AB 1735 standards will not act as a de-facto ban on raw milk.” Secretary Kawamura made this statement adamantly and repeatedly at a December 20th meeting with Claravale and Organic Pastures dairy representatives. He pledged to review our four-inch stack of documentation entitled “AB 1735: Raw Milk-The Unheard Argument” and promised to work with us to assure raw milk’s continued availability.

    A new law will be introduced in January reversing AB 1735. An investigation has exposed certain CDFA employees who met without authorization and, using erroneous data, advised staff members of the Assembly Agriculture Committee to place “eight special anti-raw milk words” into AB 1735. All CDFA agency legislative matters and bills must be reviewed and authorized by the governor’s office, as required by executive branch and administrative policy and procedure. Instead, highly misleading information was used to rapidly and secretly pass AB 1735 on a “consent item” basis without discussion or open debate. Assemblymen and State Senators who voted for AB 1735 are now very upset that they were misled, and support immediate repeal on procedural grounds. The attorney general’s office might step in, having noted an aberrant violation of established process in furtherance of a “biased agenda that is far from being consent item.”

    A lawsuit is being filed this week in San Benito County. Part of that lawsuit includes an injunction which legally secures raw milk producers against enforcement of AB 1735 standards. This allows more certain protection against AB 1735 until a new law can be passed.
    While the raw milk fight is far from over, the safety of the California raw milk supply has been secured with multiple layers of strategic political, legislative, and legal efforts. Hearings will soon be announced as part of the new bill and legislative process that will start in January. Your attendance will be essential to deepen the protections put in place.

    Keep Sending a Powerful Message: In order to strengthen our work going forward, we ask that you take pictures of yourself and your family holding raw milk bottles from Claravale and/or OPDC. Write on the picture: “Please support repeal of AB 1735.” Then mail them to the Governor’s office, your State Assemblymen, and State Senators’ offices. The impact of a personal plea with a picture of your family is worth a thousand words.

    Congratulations to all who participate in the “grass roots raw milk revolution.” Your thousands of letters and calls made all the difference! CA Raw Milk is SAFE from AB 1735 and those that sought to eliminate this sacred healing whole food.


    Mark McAfee, Founder OPDC
    Organic Pastures Dairy, California, USA

  91. Maree, I wish the information that you gave, alone is enough to make the ‘BIG GUYS’ legalise the sale and purchase of raw milk. I know we can get it as for cosmetic purposes, but I just feel it would be so much nicer if it was sold as milk for human consumption.

    If I could get my hands on the Cleopatra’s milk again (I know certain places carry it, but for the moment, they are out of my reach as I can’t drive until I get my Ps soon, fingers crossed)I would not hesitate to drink it again. I know it is just milk after all, but due to this stupid legislation, they have to market it as a cosmetic.

    Glenn, I too am less likely to believe scientists when they claim to do research for human goodness. For instance, I remember on the news when they announced that the government was planning to lift the ban on GM foods being used, they had a scientist say that GM food was safe! I wonder just how much these scientists are benefitting financially from the companies that do practice Genetic Modification.

    Sure, science does have a place, like when we need an emergemcy operation or when we need new technology for medical procedures or in finding a cure for AIDS, those sorts of things, rather than doing things as tampering with our food. Man cannot synthetically better the food that GOD gives as a natural food.

  92. Check out this great 10 minute video on bacteria in milk..


  93. I am comforted that there are so many others passionate about this subject as myself. However, I feel alone in this debate most of time living here in Oregon, US. People are afraid to change their comfortable lifestyle. So much of the population is blinded by advertisements and ’scientific evidence’. I feel like I’m in the twilight zone sometimes. While watching TV, I noticed that every other advertisement was for a chemical laden beauty product, an over processed food product or a new medical breakthrough drug to help control your blood pressure but with 50 other adverse effects. I am saddened and it makes me want to move. However, I know that in order to make a change, it will take people with passion and perserverence. I commend you all in your efforts to get back to the basics. I agree, I would rather listen to nature and history than to modern science (most of it at least). The decline in our nations health should be evidence enough that something is awry with our ‘advanced modern living’. I personally think it’s such B.S. that we are not allowed to chose the quality of our food, yet we’re allowed to chose whether we smoke or drink our bodies to death. Where’s the sense in that? I need to dig further into this issue to see what I can do as an individual to legalize raw milk!

  94. Hi Lacey. I thought tha the sale and consumption of raw milk was legal in U.S? I know the consumption of raw milk is legal in other countires. Wish the same could be said for Australia though.

    People who follow science for their dietary needs shold stop and consider what they are feding themeslves. Nature is providing for our health, but we just choose to pop a few pills because a scientist said it is safe.

  95. You can buy it from private parties. But it’s kept under wraps, and is very closely regulated. At least around here in Oregon. I am able to find raw milk cheeses at the health food stores, however. I guess what’s most frustrating is that it’s not readily available. I found a small farm about 20 miles from where I live and they will sale raw milk but each farm is only allowed to have something like 3 cows at a time if they’re selling raw milk… I’m not completely sure about the details. I also know that it’s ridiculously expensive. 1 gallon of milk is $18. I know that the price is probably barely covering their expenses, but our family is on an incredibly limited budget and I have constant moral battles with myself trying to decide if it’s better to sacrifice our finances or just stick with the pasteurized organic from the store. I am pleased that it is available at all, and I should be thankful for that, and I am. I just wish it was more available and legal to sell in markets. I hope that it becomes available for Australia, and all the world, at some point.

  96. Oh I see Lacey. $18 a gallon! When I used to buy the Cleopatra’s Organic unpasteurised milk it was about say $5.00 for 2 litres, in Queensland.

    My husband who grew up on a dairy farm wants to eventually start a hobby farm, so at least we will be getting raw milk more readily available.

    However, that is only a dream for the moment.

    It just makes no sense. It is legal to sell substances that can hurt us, like the China made stuff that contain lead based paint, yet raw milk is illegal?

    Yeah I buy Organic unhomogenised pasteurised milk too,but I would rather buy raw milk though.

  97. I was in California near LA for most of September to December 2007 & drank organic pastures milk when I could buy it 1 gallon container cost about $8.50 US. This milk was wonderfull to drink instead of the burnt tasting pasturized milk we get here in Australia. I hope our politicians can open their eyes to the scientific truth about raw milk.

  98. Can we do something big to convince these people? We need action. We need to make them awre o ur demands and our needs. Austraian dairy is suppossed to be the best (or maybe it is my love for this country, my sdopted home, talking)yet we re not geing it at is st beautiful, natural form. My Aussie born girls, know the difference between raw milk and pasturised milk and my oldest is only three. We need to ake it more available. I hated the feeling I got from ‘breaking’ the law when I was able to get raw milk (I have too much of a conscience) but as soon as that milk was in our mouths and and tummies, I did not care. it is a stupid law anyway.

  99. I am a raw milk cheese maker and butter maker. I work in the mountains of Austria and I agree with the whole raw milk effort, but I hope everyone understands how thin the wire is when it comes to wholesome raw milk and vomiting all night. Any surface milk touches is a possible point for contamination and if you trust a farmer, who likely doesn’t have HACCP plan in place, you are risking your life and that of your child. Listeria is just one of the many pathogens that comes from improperly sanitizing something, which can kill small children and elderly people. Then there is the chance that cow’s blood enters the milk supply through an udder infection or injury. While pasteurization kills of many good bacteria that help with digestion, there are enough cultured milk products that specifically introduce helpful bacteria into your system. Like yogurt, Nutrich and Kefir. Pasteurization wasn’t invented or implemented to put money in the hands of the big guy, it was invented to cover the mistakes in cleanliness. Which, by the way, are many.

  100. Hi Lucas, good to hear that Austria has its raw dairy producers too! While I agree that “pasteurisation wasn’t invented or implemented to put money in the hands of the big guy” unfortunately this hasn’t been the case for a long time. Big corporations realised long ago that the more processing you can interpose between the raw produce and the consumer, the more profits you can extract. That the more people are dependent on a limited number of processors, the more the middle-men can control both the farmers and the consumers.

    While unsanitary handling and fecal contamination can infect milk, it can infect ANY milk, raw or pasteurised. Indeed, pasteurised milk that is infected provides a perfect incubation medium, since there are no beneficial bacteria left alive in it to retard or prevent the growth of certain detrimental bacteria. Mycobacterium avium paratuberculosis, suspected of contributing to Crohn’s Disease, actually can survive the pasteurisation process. With the milk’s beneficial bacteria all dead, this nasty little bacterium has nothing much standing in its way. (Check out Dr Mercola’s New Year’s Day post on the matter here: ).

    Pasteurisation is not a magic cure, and the danger is that many become complacent and think it makes them safe. But how safe is safe? If factory farm processes are so sloppy that milk is dangerous without pasteurisation, who’s to say that a relatively cavalier attitude might carry over onto the other side of the pasteurisation plant? Cases of food poisoning caused by pasteurised milk are not unknown. Surely it is far better to ensure that cows are healthy, fed on grass, and their milk is treated with care, rather than cut corners and rely on sterilisation to kill germs that were introduced by sloppiness and uncaring practices? Prevention is better than Cure.

    Also, while helpful bacteria can be reintroduced into pasteurised products, you have forgotten that all the hugely valuable enzymes are still dead - beneficial bacteria are not the only reason to drink raw milk!

  101. Oh, by the way everyone, I’ve just seen a milk documentary is available, “Whole Truth About Milk”, by nutritionist David Getoff, CTN, CCN, FAAIM & Mark McAfee, raw milk dairyman. Released by the Price-Pottenger Foundation in May 2007, you can get it at or directly from the PPF here;

    (Note that the disc is region 1 (USA), not region 4 (Australia) so, if you buy it, you’ll need a multi-region DVD player, or a computer program that will bypass the regional encoding. Be aware if you don’t use a bypass program, you’ll see a pop-up message from your DVD-drive asking if you would like to change the drive’s region code: most computer DVD drives are programmed to only allow about five region changes before they stay locked to the last-set region forever).

  102. Why Drink Raw Milk?
    If you are new to the raw-milk scene, you may be wondering what all of the hype is about. Well, raw milk is an entirely different food from pasteurised milk, which I don’t recommend drinking.

    · Raw milk still contains all of the valuable enzymes that are destroyed during pasteurization. Without them, milk is very difficult to digest. So if you have lactose intolerance, it may very well disappear once you start consuming raw dairy products.

    · Raw milk is an outstanding source of healthy, “good” bacteria and micronutrients, including lactobacillus, acidophilus, and vitamins, which are virtually eliminated by the pasteurisation process of commercial milk. It is an outstanding nutrient to promote the growth of healthy bacteria in your intestine.

    · Raw milk still contains natural butterfat, which is homogenised or removed in pasteurised milk. Without butterfat, it becomes very difficult for your body to absorb and utilize the vitamins and minerals in the water fraction of the milk. Butterfat is also your best source of preformed vitamin A, and contains re-arranged acids with strong anti-carcinogenic properties.

    · Raw milk does not contain synthetic vitamin D, which is known to be toxic to your liver, yet is still added to most commercial milk.

    · Raw milk contains healthy unoxidized cholesterol.

    · Raw milk from grass-fed cows contain conjugated linoleic acid (CLA), which fights cancer and may help reduce your body fat.

    Pasteurising milk, on the other hand, destroys enzymes, diminishes vitamins, denatures fragile milk proteins, destroys vitamin B12 and vitamin B6, kills beneficial bacteria, and promotes pathogens. In my opinion, there’s no reason to drink pasteurised milk, ever.

    Sally Fallon, President
    The Weston A. Price Foundation

  103. Maree, you settled it for me. As soon as I can, I will be nourishing my family wiuth raw cleopatra’s milk again.

  104. Great news for Raw Milk
    Raw Milk Legislative Update with Mark McAfee 17JAN08 California USA
    Watch this YouTube:

  105. I have signed up at Real Milk, but I still think we need to do more.

  106. Here are pics of Cleopatra’s pasture fed jersey cows. I have visited Cleopatra’s dairy and can personally confirm the jersey cows are eating luscious healthy green pastures. These cows are lovingly cared for by a small farming family. Their sustainable farming methods all make for healthy real raw milk (the way Nature intended it!) unpasteurised, unhomogenised, no synthetic Vit D, and all the enzymes and vitamins intact. Raw milk is the ONLY milk that makes us healthy. I know, that other stuff …. pasteurised milk - full of dead everything … made me ill!!

  107. Just wondering if someone could give me a list of those beneficial bacteria and enzymes in raw milk. I’ve been looking for that for a couple of days now. Also, ever heard of micro filtered milk? They take raw milk, filter it and throw it on the shelf. Evidentially its working quite well in France. Only problem is that its low fat milk because the fat has too high a density to go through the filter.

  108. this link might help.. it is more detailed than any site on the subject I have seen so far.. but everything seems to be there.

  109. Hi Ness and everyone else,

    I’ve just come across this article and all your wonderful information on sourcing raw milk.

    Ness - I’m also interested in the raw Jersey milk. Let us know when you intend being at the Farmer’s markets.

    As to everyone else I notice that the discussion is only in relation to raw milk. Have any of you looked into the A1 vs A2 debate. I would think being able to get A2 raw milk would be perfect.

    Ness, do you know whether your Jersey cows produce pure A2 milk?

  110. Hi Maria,
    Most jerseys produce A2 milk, and mine are the geniune old style so I’d be pretty sure they do. All sheep and goat milk is A2.

  111. Hi Nessa,
    Excellent. Thanks for that. Count me in for a cowshare. And here I was thinking that you could only get raw milk in the US!

  112. Hi, for those of you that use Cleopatra… we have found out today that they are putting up their milk per carton nearly $2.00!
    Not sure what everyone else thinks, i think it is a bit rich.. I understand that most things will go up at some point, but 30% increase in one hit.. hmmm.
    Does anybody know how much Aphrodite costs per carton?

  113. Why don’t you ask her:

  114. :) Left a phone message yesterday. Just waiting for a reply

  115. Hi Glen,
    Cleopatra’s milk is still $5.50 for 2 ltrs at my local shop in Sth Qld. The shop owner has not received or heard of an increase from Cleopatra’s. Quote “There is no increase in the milk price”. A phone call will confirm this point…..The farmer’s ’sell price, ex farm’ has not changed. At least Three other factors are worth considering to explain the increase at your location/shop, 1) transport/freight costs, 2) Distribution/handling costs, 3) Profit margin by your shop.
    Good luck!

  116. Thanks Scott,

    I appreciate you taking the time to post whats happening in your area. The shop I just started going to said they had a notice from the dairy saying that the milk was going up… thought I would ask the question of the network to see what others have heard..

    thanks again

  117. Reading all the trouble some of you guys have to go through to get milk makes me so very thankful that I have easy access here in Adelaide it’s an hours drive to one of the nicest parts of this state.

  118. Does anyone know where we can buy raw cheese in the Sydney/Central Coast area?

  119. The one a East Wahroonga is nearly $8 now, when a few weks ago it as just over 6.

  120. Hello Nessa,
    I live in Bundanoon, do you ever come or are you ever planning to come to any markets in the Southern Highlands? I would be very interested in raw sheep or cow’s milk.

  121. Peter, you can try your local deli. The one I go to is in Hornsby. The Healthfood shop carries Arruchio Cheese made in Italy and is not pasteurised, however you can French Roquerfort Cheese from the Deli, but it rather pricey at $99 a kilo.

  122. I bought some today in Newtown for $6.80. I don’t think it has gone up much at all from what I can tell. I miss the guy at the frenchs forrest market…$5. Does anyone know if he’s still at the Bondi Markets or has he been shut down everywhere?

  123. Hi Georgie,
    I might indeed come across to the Southern Highlands-and I visit Bundanoon fairly often. Drop me an email @ blackthorn_dairy_sheepatbigponddotcom
    There will be limited sheep’s milk from next month, there will be ample sheep’s milk from June/July and there will be jersey milk from spring-I may have some jersey milk from the end of next month, but it depends if the dates on my cow are right! Sheep milk is $2.50 a litre and cow’s will be $2.50 too, I have had some concern that the sheep’s milk may have a goaty/sheepy flavour I can assure you that it doesn’t-it is mild and is very close to cow’s milk in taste, as a matter of fact I find cow’s milk to be to strong for me and much prefer that sheep’s milk! I’ll have yoghurt too cow and sheep for $3.00 litre- all for cosmetic use of course! Please email me if you’re interested, I save email enquiries so I can find them easily, if I get enough orders I should be visiting the Canberra markets and one of the Southern highland markets, hopefully I’ll get to Sydney eventually!

  124. Hi bath milk bloggers…

    Aphrodite Bath Milk is currently stocklisted in Victoria only, however due to so much demand for our product we are trying to find a distributor for NSW and SA (anyone got contacts?). Unfortunately, Peter from the Bondi Markets who was distributing for us in NSW was shut down at the end of last year.

    Our milk hasn’t had any price rises and is retailing at approx $6 plus GST


  125. Hey you know, today I ordered some of the Cleopatra’s Bath Milk online at abundant They are a Sydney based company and they do provide free delivery to most areas within Sydney if your delivery is within the days allocated for your area, other wise there is a charge of 7.00 delivery fee.

    So if you want something convenient, just check it out. And the milk is priced at 5.95 per bottle on their site.

    And I rang up Howard and apparently he sold his wholesale delivery business to married couple. They will let you buy it wholesale from them at 61.80 for 9. You can ring them up to find out the closest store that sells it. Their number is 9980 1778.

    I still recommend the online option though for the convenience sake, if you are someone like me who has to rely on public transport, which really can a be a real pain at the best of times. However if you do the online option, you will have to buy other stuff too as they won’t fill in orders with just the milk and you have to spend a minimum of 30.00

  126. Hey this will sound very weird, but after reading Nourishing Traditions, I am on the look out also for raw cow’s colostrum as she says it is very good for the immune system. How can I source this without sounding too weird about it?

    I kindo f also feel a little bit cruel to some extent as I know that colostrum is the first milk of cows, so even in asking this, I feel like I am depriving some poor calf of this. Myabe some farmer here can tell me if I am sounding like an indiot, after all I drink cows milk with no guilty felings.

    Anyway I really, would like to source some of this raw colostrum as I feel my children will benefit greatly from this, esepcially as I don’t believe in immunisations much. My first daughter had mosto fhers, as I follwed the official norm, but after having my second daughter and looking into this a bit more, I have decided to look after my children’s immunity through every natual form available, starting from food.

    So raw, colostrum and it has to be organic is very appreciated.

  127. Ask Sally from Aphrodite.

  128. Thanks Joanne, but problem is Sally does not have any Syney distributors.

  129. I’m hoping to see Trevor from Cleopatras bath milk. I’ll ask if he is willing to provide colostrum as a product. I did hear a while back of a herd share operation in Ipswich Qld who did colostrum as part of their program.

    Mum, Sallie from Aphrodite is offering NMag readers a month’s supply of milk for those who successfully establish a line of her product in their local shop. Trevor tells me the guy who distributes A2 milk in Sydney also distributes his product. Perhaps he will take on Sallie’s milk also.

  130. i wouldnt be worried about feeling bad about taking colostrum, most dairy cows have far to much for the calf and in most cases a fresh cow( newly calved) cow is put on a bucket so the colostrum is kept seperate from the other milk. most dairy farmers throw colostrum down the drain or feed it to other calves as they cannot send it to the factory or mix it with other milk

  131. Hi, I was just browsing the internet, looking for a website that I read about how to build a little model eco-village.
    I came across the site from Joanne Hay that delved into making a model village. I am looking for someone to build a model Eco-Village for me and wondered if I could get in contact with Joanne with regards to this. I live in Tasmania.

  132. Carl, Here is my article about the Claude Lewenz book, “How to Build a Village”

    You can contact me via the contact page on this site.

  133. 134. Lauren Morris
    Feb 24th, 2008 at 4:04 pm

    WOO HOO! I am very happy to announce that Cleopatra’s Bath Milk is now in Adelaide, I had a bath in it *wink wink* and gosh it was a wonderful experince, so creamy and ‘relaxing’.

  134. Hi Sallie,
    Would love to bring the Aphrodites milk/cream/butter back to Sydney.
    I am opening up shop very shortly.

  135. glenn, cleos will be going up 30 cents a bottle on the 1st of march. in every aspect of production, transport etc prices are going through the roof and the farm can only absorb so many increases before it must pass it on. however, please remember it is onlu 30 cents a bottle, definately not the 2 dollars you had been told.

  136. Thanks Joanne.

  137. A big thank you to everybody who responded to my original post re the price of Cleos. I understand there are economic concerns but on principle, i am disappointed that they are taking this opportunistic approach to something that is a staple food.

  138. Hmm.. that last post under the name “peter” was not made by me (I use a capital letter). Just so you know!

  139. peter (The one without the capital letters) why can’t the farmers mix the colostrum with other milk?

  140. Just to clarify, the peter without the capital is actually Trevor Mahaffy’s son (Cleo’s Bath Milk Farmer) and that was an unsolicited response he made while surfing the internet a few nights back. He was very surprised and delighted to see all your comments and had to join in the conversation.

    As it was Joanne and I were on our way up to up to the farm in Gympie to meet with them, unbekownst to Peter. We had a great chat to the Mahaffey family about their farm and their lovely cosmetic products. They will be starting a Nourished Directory blog in the next few days, where you will be able to discuss all of your concerns, praises and the like with peter direct.

    Peter Mahaffey is a fourth generation farmer and if I may say so is ’salt of the earth’ just like his dad and not overly IT literate (yet!). They are up every morning at 3am milking the cows so that we can have our glorious milk baths and facials. Anyway you will be hearing from Peter. M. very soon and I reckon you will enjoy what he has to say, as we did. Watch this space.

  141. Markets warned against selling raw milk

    Posted Tue Oct 23, 2007 1:45pm AEST

    The New South Wales Government is warning people not to drink unpasteurised milk, after a number of recent complaints about people selling it at markets.

    Primary Industries Minister Ian Macdonald says some retailers in Sydney and the Far North Coast have sold raw milk, claiming it has health benefits.

    Mr Macdonald says anyone selling unpasteurised milk for human consumption should be reported to the Food Safety Authority.

    “You’ve got to remember that pasteurised milk gets rid of pathogens but at the same time doesn’t reduce its nutritional value or flavour,” he said.

    “You should drink pasteurised milk - it’s the law for very good reasons. Too many people were getting sick in previous eras.”

    such an old way of thinking!!

  142. I would love to know where those complaints came from… I cannot understand why people would bother when they wouldn’t drink it themselves….
    I suspect Mr Macdonald isn’t being entirely truthful.
    On the subject of milk, I was reading about the milk diet the other night.. it is a fascinating subject that seems to have many benefits for those people with illness. Although, Joanne and Wes suggest early effects are like eating cloves of garlic..
    Has anybody else tried it before.. my father has prostate problems and i have read the milk diet has been helpful in relieving the symptoms.

  143. Hi Glenn, I too tried did the raw milk diet inspired by Joanne’s bolg last year. I have previously done several “fast’s” before for my various health issues which have included a cervical cancer (localised)- I did a modified home based ayurvedic “panchkarma” (?sp) and chronic vaginal ‘candida’ (from years of various contraceptive abuse imo) - for which I did a raw milk / broth/ sour dough rye bread fast called the Mayr? cure.
    I was interested because since I seem to instinctively feel the need for fasting as part of the rhythmical cycle of the year where if we were truly eating regionally there would be this natural abundance and paucity of food supply particularly with the change of seasons.
    Anyway, I foung the raw milk fast to be very interesting…. I commenced with a good dose of castor oil to clear out, then like Joanne I experienced the first 4-5 days of feeling gross - bloated, constipated, mucousy, increased “thrushy” symptoms. Thereafter I started to feel fantastic, and did so for ages afterwards, and still feel the benefits I think. I used a combination of raw milk and kefir, added some raw milk cheese and butter and fatty meats occasionally as required as I was still working in a fairly physical job and living my normal permaculture, mothering, homemaking life as well. I really felt the benefit in my sense of calmness and clarity (maybe taking on the energy of the cow???) I did 21/2 weeks all up, and would have continued except we had to go on a family holiday to the outback.
    One thing I would emphasise to anyone doing this, or any fast that it is extremely important to come off slowly. I have done both (lets put it down to stubborn idiocy) and feel I did damage to my gut to the point of reversing the benefits of the fast by coming off too fast.
    Let me know if you have any further questions, Nicole

  144. Joanne,
    Where might I find a copy of the raw milk diet you’ve been on? I’m very interested to give it a try!

  145. Wow comment number 146. What a conversation. Lacey, here’s the link to my story of my experience. There’s links to the milk cure and comment from Ron Schmidt who administers the diet in his clinic.

  146. About the legislation and the complaints, I mean those people who complain about people selling raw milk really need to get a life. if they do notwant to drink it, well they don’t have to, so why should they force us to drink their pasteurised crap? To me pasteurisation is just an excuse for laziness. I mean they pasteurise the milk so they don’t have to worry about pathogens, right? well,the lazy buggers should get off the ever expanding laurels and regulate the selling of raw, clean organic milk and actually do something to ensure that the quality of the raw milk ios adhered too, so we can benefit from leggaly drinking good, healthy organic raw milk.

    My kids do not take pasteurised milk at home. I refuse to allow for pasteurised milk to be in my cooking as I don’t see the point in making my food even more plastic.

    All this nonsense, I wish I could just round them all up and give them all a pice of my mind or knock some sense into them.

    Maybe if they thought there was going to be money gained from a naturally available source of nutrition, I will bet those greedy buggers wpuld happily legalise it and create all sorts of loopholes so that htye can put a price on it for their own pockets.

    Sorry, but I can’t stand the lack of choice when it comes to nourishment. Take away our choice to smoke and gamble if they were really so concerned about our health and lives.

  147. Just read the comment by Mum and just had to reply to it. I would like to say: GO MUM! I, like many others [I'm sure] are sick and tired of being told what to do, eat and buy by ‘greedy’ corporations, regulators etc. We all need to stand together and fight corporations like Woolworths, MacDonalds, Public places with pokie machines etc (who are always looking to expand into areas) and some of these areas are standing up and fighting against this cancer of greed. We should all do the same. Just take the time to send emails, letters to media, boycott, picket or whatever means you have at your disposal to let the unethical, greedy business’s know that they are not welcome.

  148. Thanks Joanne! However, I can’t seem to find the link in your comment! Am I missing it??

  149. Raw Milk consumers are amassing to attend the Biggest Raw Milk event in History!!

    Fresh Farm Milk: Assuring Safety and Consumer Choice

    FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE, March 31, 2008

    Joint Senate hearings to be held April 15th

    Senator Dean Florez and Senator Maldonado are holding joint senate hearings on raw milk for California. It appears that CDFA and the FDA are sending their “Anti Raw Milk A-Team” to try and stop the rising tide of raw milk market interest in California. The chief of FDA dairy safety John Sheehan will be attending along with eight other PhD University food safety experts.

    The Raw Milk Dream Team will include: Sally Fallon (president of the Weston A Price Foundation ), Jordan Rubin ( author of the Makers Diet ), Dr. Ted Beals MD, Dr. Mark Gebhart MD, Dr. Cat Berge DVM PhD and Walter Robb president of Wholefoods. Other powerful voices will also be attending to stand with raw milk in a science and consumer choice-based show-down that could quite possibly reset the destiny of consumer food choices for the next 100 years. Some of the experts will testify via remote video because they are from other countries. Raw milk experts will argue demonstrated California raw milk safety, superior nutrition and consumer choice.

    1500 raw milk consumers are expected to pack this six-hour hearing. Many will have the opportunity to speak briefly about why they demand raw milk in California. Information collected from this joint hearing will form the basis for new legislation that will protect consumer choice as well as create sound standards for testing Fresh Farm Milk in California.

    Date: Tuesday, April 15, 2008
    Location: Sacramento CA State Capitol Building Rm #4203
    Subject: Fresh Farm Milk-Assuring Safety and Consumer Choice Joint Hearing of: Senate Agriculture Committee and the Select Committee on Food-Borne Illness Senators Maldonado and Florez-Chairs 3:00 PM until 9:00 PM hours or until everyone has spoken John L. Burton Hearing Room (4203)

    Interviews available:
    Mark McAfee
    Founder, Organic Pastures Dairy 559-846-9732

    Our postal address is
    PMB #106-380
    4200 Wisconsin Avenue, NW
    Washington, District of Columbia 20016
    United States

  150. Thanks Carl. My point is, that there are so many other things that are detrimental to our health and people happily indulge and those that do not indulge will happily accomodate other’s right to ruin their bodieds, but raw milk, which milk as natural as can be, is somehow a health hazard?

    People need to look at other aspects of their daily life and see for themselves. They are brainwashed by the government.

    Yet, I know that this will continue.

    I remember once emailing Neslte and blasting them about the products they were marketing to children as my daughter had come home from a visit to my mum’s with their yoghourt. I actually read the lables before buying anything. My mum does not.My kid can ask for rat poison and without knowing it, my mum will get it as she does not read lables. She believes in spoiling my kids.

    Anyway I found that their product was loaded with a whole lot of rubbish, including gelatine, artifical preservatives, food flavourings, etc, basically things you will never find in real yoghourt.

    Their response was that they were well wtihin industry standards and that they were safe.

    Who are they trying to kid? It is not me that’s for sure.

    People should stand up and complain about these people, the governing body of food. We are getting fed from them, so in essence they are responsible too. We assume that just because they say, “Our poison is safe for you. It has been linked to cancer, but because we say it is safe, you can eat it. You MUST eat it. Forget about raw milk. WE say raw milk is bad for you, even if it has nothing that can kill you, but it is still bad for you, because we say it is.” That their food is safe, when it is bloody not.

    Is that logical to think like that? We know better than that. Are we that dumb not to wake up to this? There is enough information out there for us to know what is truly good for us and we still choose to blindly follow the bureaucrats.

    I’ll pen a letter again and realy piss them off too if I have to. I would even arm myself with more knowledge too against them. Coles, Woolies all need a kick up their ever expanding laurels.

  151. You said everything I’m thinking Mum. It’s so frustrating it could make my blood boil!!

  152. Join to lobby for a certification of Real Raw Milk in Australia.

  153. Sorry Lacey. Was so excited about this huge conversation I forgot to put the link in. It’s there now and here it is again.

  154. Thanks Lacey. I just re read my comment and boy did I sound angry. I feel angry just thinking about it. The other day I went shopping and I saw a couple, both who are overweight and they seemed to think that htye were doing the right thing, by loading the trolley with meals from Lean Cuisine. However I also noticed that they had things like soft drinks as well and some other stuff too that is not healthy. I only notcied them because they were in front of me and their trolley was full of junk. I know it may not have all been frothem, but the fact is, we are so havily brainwahsed by propanga and the government that we seem to think “Oh just have the Lean Cusine if you want to lose weight. Just have low fat, avoid all the fatty stuff and a bit of exercise, that ought to do it”.

    I know exercise is excellent for you for weight loss, for over all strength and kudos to that, we forget that nutrition too plays a part and I don’t mean low fat food. I think low fat food is very dangerous because our bodies need good fats too from the food we eat. Instead we should all be advised to eat food as natural as possible, inclusing raw full fat milk, full fat meats and food as nature created and have excerise as a natural part of life too. Cut out all processed food as that is the problem with alot of our ill health. Itry to do this for my kids too. Granted it isn ot easy to do so especially as when you shopping you see al processed things just right in front of you.

    I have seen so many well meaning mothers buying processed cereals for their children and skip the traditionally recognised healthy food, such as wholegrain rolled oats (not instant) for instant, thinkigntyhat the processed cereals are just as healthy simply because some of them contain some measure of wholegrain. They don’t realise that whatever measure of wholegrain that is available has been so heavily processed that it just cancels out most of the nutrients.

    They need to be aware of what is truly good and what is not. I mean I understand that most mothers work too, so these types of cereals are conveninent to them, but it takes next to no time to boil or scramble some eggs to serve over wholegrain sourdough bread or to cook rolled oats that has been left to soak over night. Much better and more filling, than things like fruit loops, cheerios, weet bix, etc.

    I used to be one of those, until I read more and Sally Fallon’s Nourishing traditions is now the book for me and then I realized that I was not feeding my kids the proper cereals. I stopped buying them and started cooking porridge for breakfast and my kids won’t eat much processed cereal now. They don’t even ask much, I just explain that they are not very healthy for them.

    All those sugar laden, heavily processed cereals should be banned.

    The other day I brought my three year old to the dentist and the dentist was very surprised and she said to my girl, “Your teeth are so clean and healthy”, as she has seen kids as young as myd aughters age with dental problems too. Yet she does not brush her teeth all the time, unless I physically make her do it, by standing there and brushing her teeth out for her, which I can’t always do for her as I have another baby to take care of too.

    However my children drink raw milk, eat unprocessed food. Their only form of sweetness usually comes from eating good fresh fruit, raw honey on their porridge or full fat yoghourt, with no artifial additives. They good amounts of red meat too. They drink lots of water too. No soft drink, that I have seen some kids happily drink.

    Yes they have had the occassional sweet treat, but they still pick out fruit over the treat.

    They also eat fresh fish and sea food too, so their omega three needs are met.

  155. 156. Peter (with capital!)
    Apr 9th, 2008 at 7:29 pm

    Cleopatra’s Bath Milk has hit the mainstream media!
    Longrain, a trendy Sydney restaurant uses it in a dessert - a positive article appeared in the Sydney Morning Herald a couple of days ago on Monday 7th April 2008. Here’s the link:

    The article states that the milk was heated to 70 degrees during preparation of the dish, so it was not really raw - which probably will avert . However the fact that the restaurant (”Longrain”, 85 Commonwealth St, Surry Hills, about 10 mins walk south of Hyde Park) has been upfront about its use of raw milk is to be applauded. Here’s and info-link for Longrain:

  156. 157. Peter (with capital!)
    Apr 9th, 2008 at 9:30 pm

    edit to the above: “..which will probably avert unwelcome attention from any ill-informed close-minded officials.”

    Some further thoughts…

    Governments often retire laws that are considered archaic. We should make this a point of emphasis: the law is out of date, and out of touch with what people want. Another point that needs to be emphasised is that our demands for raw milk is not unqualified - we want raw milk from cows that are fed solely on pasture and hay, and not living a life of close confinement on a diet of grain (possibly one day even GM grain), growth hormones and antibiotics. I feel a mistake made by some who cling to pasteurised milk is that they only know factory farming (with its various health risk opportunities) as a way to produce milk, and don’t realise that a different and better production paradigm exists.

    We should position raw milk as a specialist food, a gourmet food, a health food, to make it clear to everyone that done properly, it is distinctly different from generic milk that’s mass-produced from the highly processed combined contributions of hundreds of anonymous cows from many factory farms. The state governments could be forward-thinking and proactively do something useful by setting up a Raw Milk Certification process, to ensure raw milk can only be bottled and sold by small organic farms that feed their cows on pasture & hay, and not grains and growth-hormones, and which are monitored regularly in a cooperative, not confrontational, spirit. In terms of informing consumers, buying raw milk should almost be like buying a bottle of wine - the product coming from a named individual producer who has produced his beverage with great care, and the production method and ingredients described in some detail. Dairy visits, like visits to a winery, should be encouraged, strengthening the direct link between producer and consumer. We should all be more interested in where *exactly* our food has come from.

    Raw milk as a niche market will be less threatening to big corporate interests, and there will be plenty of people who will still buy unhealthy muck simply because it’s cheaper. Coca Cola didn’t suffer too much when sales of bottled spring water rose - in fact they profited by listening to what people wanted and jumping on the bandwagon.

    There is room in the milk market for raw milk producers. People can enjoy unhindered freedom of choice, big corporates can adapt and perhaps find a new market, and governments (which so love regulation) can have something new to keep a loving eye on.

  157. Yes I was at Longrain on sunday for their soil to plate lunch - which was all very nourishing and traditional food. It was just delicious and so was the ice cream!! They run them every month if anyone is interested.

  158. It was a good article, I was puzzled about something though…. they said they heat the milk up to 70 degrees to make the ice-cream.. I am not sure why you would do that. I make ice-cream all the time.. never had to heat it ever…
    do you think it was perhaps a blind to throw the wolves off the scent?

    It was good to see the article in a positive light though.. the personal trainer there says he drinks 4 litres of raw milk per week. I hope it doesn’t cause grief.. but great to see it though. People still look at me wierd when I tell them I drink raw milk.. its hysterical when they see the label on the container!!
    I am not bothered though, I will convert them one at a time..

  159. yeah they probably know that is illegal presently to have raw milk for human consumption, so they probably said that, to throw off the scent.

    It is good that they had the article, as I hope people will be more aware of thhis product and create a bigger demand.

    Might actually do somehting to force the big wigs to change.

    Peter I love your peaceful, factual comment. It said everything properly and nicely and it really hit the mark.

  160. 161. christine Blades
    Apr 20th, 2008 at 2:52 pm

    I have had my 3 year old daughter drinking Cleos milk for about 8 months now, currently the supplies are really low and for the first time I had to give her the other milk, and today she woke up screaming with stomach pains and diahorrea, I hope to god I can get some soon.

    I know my naturopath told me pets milk is exactly the same but not too sure about that, has anyone else tried it?

  161. The thing to be careful about with raw milk is where it came from. If you can be sure the animals you’re getting your milk from are grass fed their whole lives, there’s a much better chance it is nutrient dense and clean. What it’s called is not as important as this.

  162. 163. Peter (with capital!)
    Apr 22nd, 2008 at 2:15 am

    Hi Christine, sorry to hear about your daughter. I’ve been hearing warning murmers from my Cleo’s supplier that they might soon have to start rationing the supplyt between customers soon, due to the cows giving less over winter. An alternative for her though is raw goat’s milk. I read on the web somewhere that pasteurisation laws generally only relate to cow’s milk.. so other types, like goat or sheep milk, slip under the official radar. As a result, some shops that regretfully are still too uneasy to sell raw cow’s milk actually will happily stock raw goats’ milk and raw sheep-milk yoghurt. Some of the bottle blurb says goats’ milk is gentler and more easily digestible than cows’, but it can have a goaty flavour that some (including me) find unusual.

    Here’s a simple idea you might like to try.. On the occasions in deep winter last year when I could not even grab one bottle of Cleo’s, I instead picked up pasteurised, but non-homogenised milk. There are a couple of brands around that are organic full cream as well, which are even better. Then you mix this 50-50 wth raw goats’ milk. Benefits are that the dead cows’ milk dilutes the goaty flavour, and the raw living goats’ milk provides enzymes and beneficial probiotic bacteria, needed to maintain healthy intestinal flora.

    Although if you daughter’s tummy is very sensitive to conventional milk, you didn’t mention if the milk that upset her was homogenised or not (nearly all supermarket milk is these days) - did have you tried her on pasteurised, but non-homogenised? If a little of that goes down ok as a test, you could perhaps use that in a 50-50 winter mix if she finds pure goats’ milk a bit funny & you can’t get Cleo’s. :)

  163. 164. Peter (with capital!)
    Apr 22nd, 2008 at 2:17 am

    Sorry about the weird sentences .. it’s a sign that it’s time for bed!

  164. 165. christine Blades
    Apr 22nd, 2008 at 6:54 pm

    Thank you so much for your reply Peter, after the last episode I am sooo scared to try her on “shop” milk again, I will definitly try your suggestion with half pasteurised and goats, but will wait until I am calm and relaxed LOL, just in case she has a reaction.

    I got Cleos milk on Monday, and she is back to her normal self after 2 days, Yes the shop I buy my Cleos from is taking orders and will order if you prepay for it, and I even rang another shop to get an extra bottle to freeze, but they had sold out straight away the same morning they got it in. Thanks again, I really appreciate your advice

  165. 167. Greyshore
    May 3rd, 2008 at 5:14 pm


    I was just wondering how long you can keep the Cleo’s milk forzen in the freezer? And within how many days do you have to consume it once it’s been defreezed? Many Thanks!


  166. Christine, where do you get your Cleos from?

  167. Just wondering if anyone knows about the nutritional benefits of raw goat’s milk vs raw cow’s milk. My daughter drinks raw goat’s milk. I can now access raw cow’s milk but was wondering whether I should keep her on the goat’s as she is happy with it. When I initially put her on it I had read something which is now a vague memory that said the closest animal milk to breastmilk was first horse milk and then goats milk.

  168. I looked up the subject Jemma, but, I can’t find anything biased to one or the other. For me personally cows milk and my kids drink raw cows milk, but just try out to see which one suits her best and go from there. They are both good, but gotas milk may be a little gentler on the digeastive system, but like I said, try both and see.

  169. We’ve just launched So sign up to register your interest in owning a cow (or part thereof) and getting a local supply or Real Milk.

  170. You know funnily enough, long before I even read this article, my mother in law was telling me that the shop milk is not proper milk as she sayus due to the processing they would have undergone by the time they reach the shops and is no longer as fresh as fresh.

  171. Hi,
    Does anybody know where could I buy the raw organic goat’s milk in Melbourne? Home delivery?
    Thanks a lot!

  172. Hi,

    Wow interesting reading about the debate. I have been unable to get an answer from my local shop whether the Cleopatra Milk is from a certified organic farm with certified organic cows. Also, are they truly grass fed given the drought, or fed grain and is it organic. I have tried to find an answer on the label or website, but no luck. The shop says it is organic, and grass fed and approved by Weston A Price Australia. We are committed to supporting our organic farmers so would like to continue to do so.

    Can anyone help ?

  173. maybe you could try contacting the farm if you wish.

  174. 177. Peter (with Capital!)
    Jul 31st, 2008 at 9:28 pm

    Hi Jack,

    Check out Scott’s post of 25th January 2008, above, and also the link he provided ( ) showing the Cleopatra cows and their pasture.

    One of my suppliers says the milk is organic, just not certified under the official labelling scheme as this adds costs in terms of money and also time spent satisfying bureaucrats. Personally, I don’t mind this arrangement at all - I’d rather trust a person than an anonymous logo.

    You might like to try the Cat Test of Quality. Buy some pasteurisd, homogenised, watered-down-with-permeate milk from the supermarket, and place a saucer of that next to a saucer of Cleopatra’s, and see which one the Cat chooses. I’ve tried that test personally and, while I presented the samples on different days, the Cat hadn’t yet eaten and was hungry both times. Supermarket milk was “sniff & walk off, then mew for dinner”. Cleo’s was “throaty purr while lapping at full speed”. To me, that was more convincing than a logo.

  175. I think what Peter and the website is saying is that Cleopatra’s milk is NOT certified organic. This was our question, as the shop staff have told us that it WAS certified.

    However, we do not consider the various organic certifying bodies to be “bureaucrats” but qualified and independent parties, who establish and verify standards that we can rely on. We respect and support those producers who are prepared to take the time and bear the cost of achieving certification and obtaining the right to display the BFA or NAASA or other logo. They are hardly anonymous or untrustworthy.

    As to the “cat test” - cats eat and drink many things that we would not, so we find it hardly relevant to our choices. We consider that all of us are entitled to make informed choices, and we choose to support organic producers and consume certified organic products, whenever possible, and will continue to do so.

    We support the supply of raw milk by Cleopatra’s but would be happier if it were certified organic.

  176. So many comments on Raw milk - I buy Cleopatra’s also from an organic fruit & vegie supplier and it is lovely. As cheese comes from milk and we eat a lot in our house - does anyone know where it is possible to get a raw cheddar or tasty cheese (one my children will eat). I live in Morayfield, Brisbane. I have also been searching for all forms of raw dairy (sour cream, cream, yoghurt, butter and of course cheese) for 6 months only to run into walls. It has taken me many months to find the milk and I have just sourced butter (at New Farm Powerhouse markets if anyone is interested) which is also rich and yummy. If anyone knows where I can also obtain these dairy products in their raw form, in Brisbane, I would LOVE your response. Thanks all and good luck with your search for great health!

  177. I know it’s been mentioned before but for those in Sydney, you can now get Aphrodite’s Bath milk from Abundant Organics online. There’s no restriction on the number you can get which is great in winter. A few weeks back I got 5 x 2 litres as my kids were going through it like crazy and I had family staying. In the future they will have the butter and yoghurt as well. There is a minimum of $30 for free home delivery. I didn’t live any where near to a supplier and was travelling over an hour for milk a week, often to find I could only get 1 x 2L bottle.

  178. Where to get clean, raw milk? Your own cow.

    Myself and two siblings grew up on clean, raw milk. We shared wonderful health and seemed to have much more vitality (especially noticeable during flu season) than our suburban school pals.

    Although we had only a small couple of acres - there was plenty of grass to feed our cow. Drawbacks? The smell and taste is stronger than conventional, pasteurised milk, and; winter mornings when it was my week-long turn to milk the cow.

  179. 182. Mrs C.Richard
    Sep 26th, 2008 at 5:57 pm

    Hi there, you know Mandy what an idyllic childhood. I ma just wondering here, I love raw milk, my kids do too, but my hubby is 67, turning 68 and I ma wondering if it is good for him to have raw milk still?

  180. 183. Mrs. C.Richard
    Sep 26th, 2008 at 6:03 pm

    He is five feet ten, 11 stone, has no health problems, but you know the kids are still young, one is four and one will be two soon and we love him and want him to be healthy for a long, long time. He does not smoke, has an occassional red wine, but that’s about his only vice (For me, I don’t touch alcohol at all.) So can he still drink raw milk until the cows come home

  181. Hi all - I have a number of questions about all this actually - but my main one was…

    my mother has Chron’s disease, and eating foods with gluten makes her bleed from the bowel and she’s in danger of getting bowel cancer unless she completely eliminates it from her diet. there has been a chain of problems that have all come within a couple of years partially due to high stress. She also has Hashimoto’s disease, which is an auto-immune disease affecting the thyroid. Did I see a post somewhere sometime that suggested that raw milk may be able to help with Chron’s disease? I don’t want my poor mum to have to go without gluten products for the rest of her life - or far worse, get cancer of the bowel.

    Does anyone know about this? thanks. Maddie

  182. 185. gabriela
    Oct 5th, 2008 at 1:32 am

    HI Maddie,
    re your Mum’s Crohn’s disease and Hashimoto’s. I have hashimoto’s thyroiditis and according to my wonderful GP (who’s an expert on this as she is also a sufferer), and other naturapathic as well as medical sites, gluten inflames the Hashi’s thyroiditis,exacerbating the condition with the added stress of possibly developing coeliac disease. Gluten is not that healthy for consumption in general in any case, and if she has Crohn’s disease then all the more reason to avoid it. There’s an excellent site called Stop the Thryoid Madness as well the Nary Shomon site, both are patient advocate sites with a welath ofn information on auto-immune diseases. I found this site today looking for probiotic stuff after an endoscopy revealed I have some bacteria in the gut that has probably been there and probably contributed to some of the health problems. With the antibiotics I’m taking no one bothered to tell me aboutnprobiotics and just stumbled on this information as a vital necessity for healthy gut flora, very important with all auto-immune disease. Hope this helps.

  183. Hi all

    Where to buy raw milk in Sydney : which i have been to
    -> Cleopatra Bath Milk - Go Vita Dr Earth Bondi Junction (not in the shopping centre) along the pedestrian mall - Monday stock and Newtown King st
    -> Cleopatra Bath Milk - 7th Heaven RANDWICK Belmore Road (they used to have it - probably Monday stock)
    -> Cleopatra Bath Milk and probably Aprodhite - Alfalfa Newton Enmore Road

    Raw goat milk
    Macro store - Bondi junction

    To Maddie

    I have no knowledge of the disease
    I strongly suggest this website
    I believe he can help you

  184. i forgot to add, my mum also has coeliac disease.
    thanks for the reply, i’ll have a look at those pages.

  185. Hi everyone. I had my first taste of cleo’s today (my first taste of raw milk full stop). It’s certainly got a different taste and a creamyness that you don’t get with milk from the store.

    I have to say though it’s a bit heavy and creamy for me. I hope one day you could maybe get reduced fat raw milk or something. I like the taste but presumably raw milk would be quite high in fat, wouldn’t it? it tastes creamier than full cream milk, but I don’t know if that means it has more fat or not.

    Other than that, I love the clean taste of the milk. My father’s partner drinks only soy milk but asked if she could have a taste of the milk I had bought. She said it tasted like milk used to when she was a child, and she doesn’t like the strange taste of pasteurised milk. It definitely has a cleanness and freshness that I have not experienced before.


  186. Hi everyone, just logged onto this site to check out WHEN the rotten bureaucrats started altering our cows milk!! (ie pasturising/homog.etc) and came across all these blogs.
    Seems to be all in N.S.W. and none in Victoria, so anyone in Victoria I will say here and now, if you want cows milk straight from the cow, go straight to the farmer who has cows, a lot of farmers wont sell you the stuff because its illegal but then there are also a lot of others who WILL sell it but you HAVE to keep your mouth SHUT. I went to a local famrer in gippsland and simply asked him if he would sell me some milk, he said yes he would as long as I didnt tell anyone where I got it from, thats ok with me and I picked up the 1st 2 litres today and YUM, it is sooooo creamy, makes the bottles stuff taste like water!!
    I dont beleive anything they say about milk straight out of the cows udder because I am now 70, I have 5 brothers and sisters and we were all raised on milk taken straight from the cow and delivered to us in the morning by a milk carter straight out of the great big milk can. Now I lived in country Queensland way back then and Mum used to skim all the cream off the milk, put it in glass jars with lids and get us kids to sit on the stool and shake these jars for HOURS to make butter!!
    If the raw milk was so jolly unsafe dairy farmers all over the world would NOT be using it for themselves and their families. Anyway just thought I’d let some victorians know how to go about getting the REAL thing

  187. Hi,

    Is there anybody on the lower north Shore of Sydney (North Sydney - Chatswood) interested in getting Cleopatras in the area?
    I have located someone willing to deliver raw milk into the area either by home delivery or to a Health Food shop in the area.. the minimum order is a crate.. (9 x 2litre cartons)
    Please post in here if interested, and a health food shop that you might know that could be interested.. I have one in mind, but he has to get over his fear of stocking it first.

  188. Hi Glen and everyone else,
    I realise your post was put up a cpl of months ago but i live in the lower nth shore n would be interested in ordering some Cleopatra’s, although i don’t know any stores that would stock it..pls post back if ur still interested..
    Does anyone else know of anyone stocking it anywhere in the lower nth shore area..any help would be great, i grew up on raw cows milk in the Himalayas in India and miss it very much..

  189. Hello Joanne and everyone else,

    My family and I have been consuming Cleopatra Bath milk for less than two years. Before we consume it, we boil it a little bit in the microwave to see if it coagulates or not. If it coagulates, it means it’s spoiled. If it doesn’t coagulate, it means it’s not spoiled. This is how my husband tests if milk is spoiled or not since that is how his family does in their farm.

    The Cleopatra Bath milk doesn’t coagulate even until 10 days sitting in the fridge after we buy them on the day it is delivered at the wholefoods store. But recently (may one month now), once we open one bottle, this one bottle will not last even for two days. When we boil it up, it coagulates.

    For example, the expiry date on the bottle is 22 Jan 09. We bought this bottle in wholefoods shop on 12 Jan. 09. I opened the bottle last night. I boiled it up, it coagulated a tiny bit. But this morning was too much.

    For more than a year, Cleo was not like that. Only recently.

    My question is: is it safe to drink that raw milk even if has coagulated?

    We usually throw it when it coagulates. Are there ways not to throw it away? For example, maybe I can make cheese out of it or something like that?

    Can anybody here give me recipe on making a coagulated raw milk to something safe and edible?

    Thanks a lot for all your help.


  190. 193. Cathy Mifsud
    Jan 15th, 2009 at 2:38 pm

    Maybe the place you buy your milk from needs to turn their fridges up a bit higher?
    Also, RAW milk that is turning ( if this is what’s going on) is safe to drink, my daughter loves raw milk when it first goes sour!! Don’t throw it out. Its only pasteurized milk that could be harmful because its protective good bacteria was destroyed. Also the butter fat content maybe higher, maybe your microwave and the butterfat content could be the reason for the change?
    I just saw a scarry doco on wireless technology and its effects on the living especially our children and it explained microwaves leak radiation into quite a large area, their dangerous and should be avoided. They also damage the food.
    Hope this was helpful.

  191. 194. Renee Martin
    Jan 21st, 2009 at 9:38 pm

    Hi Everyone! Great to see so many people onto a good thing!

    I have a 12 month old Son and wish to wean him off formula onto Goats milk.
    I am finding it extremely difficult to find unpasteurized goats milk around the Mornington Peninsula; Victoria.

    Can anyone point me in the right direction? I have tried numerous health food shops but supply is very inconsistent.

    Warmest regards

    Renee & Hunter

  192. I’m assuming the owber of this blog is Joanna Hay, aka ‘The Nourisher’. I’m further assuming this is the same person I looked up as an advertised source of raw milk via The contact email for this person was ‘’. I think it’s reasonable that I assume this is the same person. I have tried to contact this person twice about obtaining raw milk, but have not had a response. I am in the ACT and am still looking. Can anyone assist? And is the owner of this blog still monitoring it? I note her last entry was 29/5/2008.

  193. Nice to meet you Phil. I am Joanne Hay and The Nourisher but I am not the person. Pity you can’t get in touch with them Kefir is very cool. Best I can do to help you is direct you to Maybe you can band together with some other Canberrans and get a herdshare going. The next site is due soon, which will help you see who else is in Canberra and help each other build a group to start a herdshare.

  194. I am in the ONKAPARINGA Council South Australia I spoke to my local Member John Hill about why 4 years ago “they” who are they ????? decided that all raw milk had to be pasteurised to prevent illness and death and I said well ban cars,motor bikes and planes … talking to the rear end of arhinoceros…..used to get Raw milk from B&D Strathalbyn …… anyone with info for Adelaide South Australia about 30 k’s south of Adelaide

  195. Very good work . Show me the Raw Milk Baby !!!!

  196. 199. Cathy Mifsud
    Mar 23rd, 2009 at 10:20 pm

    Brian, are you near the Paris Creek BD farm? They might be able to help you anyway. So did South Australia have raw milk up until 4 years ago and who stocked it, if you don’t mind?

  197. Hi Everyone,

    I just bought my first two bottles of Cleopatra’s Raw Milk! It was also my first taste of RAW milk. It’s unlike the conventional milk in taste and texture (even compared to organic pasteurised milk)! It does have a slight hint of sourness, is that normal? I was worried it’s spoilt but the date says it won’t expire til late next week. I drank two glasses of it and felt fine. I didn’t feel “clogged up” internally like I normally would when I drink conventional milk. My partner (who’s a lawyer) has been grilling me about the “safety” of the milk I just bought. He refuses to touch raw milk. His been trying to argue with me to convince me that without pasteurisation I’m going to get sick. Is there any studies or articles I can show him to change his mind?


  198. 201. Cathy Mifsud
    Apr 9th, 2009 at 11:59 pm

    Congratulations Zoe Lee!
    So many people gave me a hard time about drinking raw milk too, especially that I was giving it to my daughter. Now nearly three years later they are ALL drinking it! Raw milk makes people glow, its catchy. is an excellent site, as well as there is an excellent power point presentation free on raw milk facts in both these sites.
    Nina’s up, goto go!
    Raw milk is the best and kefir raw is even better!!!!

  199. raw milk for sale maitland area if anyone is interested.

  200. Zoe,

    If your husband is not willing to change his mind then even if you show him an article he will find you another one that contradicts yours.

    Cleopatra does go a bit sour after few days (even before the expiry date) but it’s still good. I only like to drink it the first few days and I use the rest to make cheese, kefir or yoghurt.

  201. 204. tahlee adey
    Apr 17th, 2009 at 12:49 pm

    Firstly I’d like to tell anyone whos interested that I am from victoria (west gippsland) and i buy milk direct from the local dairy farm, absolutely delicious!! simply cannot beat it. 4years ago I had part of my bowel removed after a perforation, ever since then I ‘ve had serious bowel problems, 1 year ago I searched for a dairy farm eventually found 1 and BINGO, over the last 9 months I’ve had NO bowel problems.

    I leave the milk sit in the fridge for a full day, skim the cream off the top and make butter with some and bottle whats left (usually not much as we only buy 3.5litres every 2nd day) I beleived that if there were going to be any sort of problem with cows milk I certainly would have had been a likely candidate for any of those problems due to my history but i’ve astounded all the specialists by throwing away all my medications that I was on for the bowel problem.
    Now I am sure this will not work for all, but it worked for me and thats the most important thing.

    I got so fed up to the teeth drinking that rubbish they call MILK in a bottle or carton!!

    I was raised on milk from the cow, the farmer came to our house and delivered his milk in a milk can and my mother just bought what she needed, she made her own butter and all us kids grew up to be very healthy and strong, so those idiots who say OH cows unpasturised milk is dangerous DONT know what they are talking about.

    c’mon you lot get cracking and write to your local member!!

  202. Hey Tahlee,
    I live in Gippsland too. Would you be willing to let me know where you get your milk?
    If so please email me at
    Thank you kindly,

  203. 206. Traci Tunbridge
    May 5th, 2009 at 12:27 pm


    I am on the Mornington Peninsula and would be interested in the details of the raw milk from Gippsland too if someone could please forward me the details -

    My husband is also suffering from some god awful gut disorder with lots of weight loss and all the normal woes. Been diagnosed as severe dysbiosis and yeast infection after antibiotics :( desperately trying to get to the bottom of this.

    Also Renee if you read this - there is some raw goat milk for sale on Coolart Road, Balnarring. Cannot comment on the quality of it but I see the sign out the front all the time (for animal use only on the sign)

    Thanks for your help
    Traci Tunbridge

  204. Hi! I have heard that raw goat’s milk is better than raw cow’s milk. Is this true? Do you have an opinion?

    I am thinking of making the coconut milk tonic with dolomite powder (to replace raw milk), but have read that the powder can be problematic. Any thoughts?


  205. Hi Everyone,
    Thanks for your words of encouragement, kudos to Cathy and Bettina. I have shown a few articles to my partner regarding raw milk, history of pasteurisation, etc. My partner is “considering” the idea of trying some, but he’s going to observe if I ever get sick on raw milk first. I think he’ll be waiting forever. I guess we can’t convince everyone. He belongs to the old school of thought that pasteurisation and homogenisation is for our own good. But I’m definitely enjoying raw milk! It’s delicious with fresh berries as a healthy smoothie.

    I’m going to start learning how to make cheese, yoghurt, or butter and cream with some of the raw milk (I’ve asked many health food stores for these items and none of them stock any). Would greatly appreciate if anyone is willing to share their recipes and tips! I wish they would permit the sale of raw butter, raw cheese and raw yoghurt! That would improve our health and saves us time.

  206. Goat’s milk wins hands down! Dr Mary Enig and Sally Fallon have written that a unique six-carbon capric acid (a short-chain fatty acid) is primarily found in Goat milk butterfat. They write: “These fatty acids have antimicrobial properties that is, they protect us from viruses, yeasts and pathogenic bacteria in the gut. They do not need to be acted on by the bile salts, but are directly absorbed for quick energy.”

    For years, physicians and nutritionists have known the superior health characteristics of goat milk and it’s products.
    1.Goat Milk is More Digestible Than Cow Milk
    The average curd tension of cow milk is 70 grams, while for goat milk it is 36 grams.
    * fat molecules have thinner, more fragile membranes, and the molecules themselves are much smaller.
    * Goat milk has more acid-buffering capacity than cow milk, soy infant formula and nonprescription antacid drugs.
    * Goat milk has a higher content of short and medium fatty acids, known to inhibit Candida infections.
    2.Goat milk is inherently more suitable for human consumption because it is non-allergenic and it’s nutrients are more readily accessible.
    Children fed goat milk surpass those on cows milk for weight gain, stature, skeletal mineralization, bond density, blood plasma vitamin A, thiamine, riboflavin, niacin and hemoglobin concentrations.

    Goat Milk is Non Allergenic
    * 7% of U.S. children show symptoms of cow milk allergy as wheezing, congestion, frequent ear infections, eczema, skin rashes and digestive troubles.
    * Goat milk does not have the protein that is the main stimulant of allergenic reactions, b-lactoglobulin

    Further Nutritional Comparison
    Goat milk is higher in vitamin A, calcium, potassium and copper than cow milk. It contains the same amount of iron, and a lower amount of folic acid. However, a linear comparison of the nutrients fails to show how they function physiologically. Goat milk contains many carrier proteins that help nutrients like iron and folic acid cross the intestinal wall. The importance of these carrier proteins was recognized approximately 30 years ago, yet few nutritionists or physicians are aware that they exist, possibly because the activity of these carrier proteins is destroyed during pasteurization. Nonetheless, Mother Nature has included these proteins in raw milk to assure that the growing infant has the proper mineral nutrition. Studies have shown that unprocessed goat milk needs no supplementation to support mineral nutrition in the growing infant. In fact, goat milk promotes higher bone mineral density than does cow milk.

    A literal reading of the nutritional comparison may be misleading. In reality it is the small molecular size of goat milk components and their superior bio-availability that create the unique functionality of goat milk.

    Besides all that, goat’s milk is closest to mother’s breast milk. It is naturally homogenized, so there’s no cream separation. Goats are naturally immune to diseases, such as TB.
    If given the choice between what’s available, for cows- Jersey is the best choice for high butterfat content, for goats- Nubian is the best (& no smell). Of course, it all depends on how they’re fed, too.

  207. Hi all,
    My whole family can’t handle dairy. We are looking into buying a sheep for milking.
    Can anyone give me any info? Are there better breeds than others?

  208. Sheep were milked by humans 3,000 years before cows were milked.
    The best sheep breed for milking is the East Friesian(Dutch), for the most milk production. Also, Awasssi’s from Israel, for their robust nature.
    Sheep milk is highly nutritious, richer in vitamins A, B, and E, calcium, phosphorus, potassium, and magnesium than cow’s milk. It contains a higher proportion of short- and medium-chain fatty acids, which have recognized health benefits.
    Sheep milk has a higher solids content than goat or cow milk. As a result, more cheese can be produced from a litre of sheep milk than a litre of goat or cow milk. Sheep milk yields 18 to 25 % cheese, whereas goat and cow milk only yield 9 to 10 %.
    Sheep milk is about 18% butterfat. It’s naturally homogenised; the cream doesn’t separate like in cow’s milk.
    Goat’s milk contains only 2.4 mcg of folate per 1 cup of milk whereas cow’s milk contains 12.2 mcg of folate per 1 cup of milk. But get this- sheep’s milk contains 17.2 mcg of folate per 1 cup of milk! As for the vitamin B12, compare the results for 1 cup on milk: Goat’s milk: .2 mcg, Cows milk: 1.1 mcg, Sheep’s milk: 1.7 mcg.
    Sheep milk yogurt every morning for breakfast over your cereal gives you a good start to the day, and the high calcium helps to counteract the danger of phytic acid in a high fibre diet.
    Ask Nessa, from - she’s the sheep expert. I’ve read her posts around here.

  209. Mandy,
    You’d also do well to drink Kefir, even over fresh dairy, as this will start to repair & build up your digestive system. Here’s some info -
    and here -
    I have Kefir grains, if you’re interested, email me- gamgoAToptusnetDOTcomDOTau (switch the caps).

  210. Does anyone know if Nessa is selling sheep’s milk or is there anyone else who we could get it from?

  211. Nessa is selling sheep’s milk. Contact her from here-

  212. Hi,
    I breed Anglo Nubian Dairy Goats and live in Leopold, Vic
    I have a lady that is buying my goats milk to make soap but will have too much supply for her demand soon and am looking for ways to market raw goats milk. I thought about pet shops as it is a terrific supplement for kittens and puppies as they are lactose intolerant.
    Not sure about how it will sell though.
    If anyone knows someone that would be interested in buying some or have ideas about how i could sell it i would greatly appreciate it.
    My does are due to kid late August so it wouldn’t be until then.
    I only have 5 kidding this year but hope to greatly expand numbers in the next few years.

    Thank you

  213. Hi Jess,
    I’m so glad you’ve listed here, as I’d love to get your goat’s milk, after August. We’re just down the road, in Geelong! I loved your website, & I’ll show our daughter, Gemma, your doe, Gemma!! Have you thought about putting a notice in the local health food shops? I’ll call you sometime soon,….. Anita.

  214. Hello All, I’m new here, but thanks for sharing so the rest of us can learn! Wanting to find raw cow milk (A2 if possible) in southeast Melbourne or Mornington Peninsula….also open to raw sheep and goat milk. Any info or input is appreciated. You can email me at . Thanks in advance, and–Create a great day!

  215. 218. Cathy Mifsud
    Jul 16th, 2009 at 12:20 am

    Aphrodite do a raw jersey milk. (click on stockists to find nearest supplier) and Schultz/Timboon do too except its a blend of three different cow milks which includes jersey and holstein. If a source of raw milk is too far then ask your local organic shop/health food store or IGA etc to get it in!

  216. Was looking for suggestions on where I can get RAW milk in Melbourne.
    Home postcode 3163 (Caulfield)
    Work 3000 (CBD)

    many thanks

  217. Hi to All,….
    A bit unrelated I must say…. But we have a very large surplus of Fruit Grains Kefir to the point that we have to throw it away. We would like to find avenues that would enable us to sale it at a reduced cost to people interested and informed about the probiotic properties of Kefir. Let us know how you feel about your interest in this very amazing product with so much potential to keep your health at it’s best.
    We can be contacted at this address :

    Ciao for now Erick

  218. Hello,
    Does anyone know where I can buy mare’s milk/ horse milk from, preferably in Sydney region?
    Also has anyone tried it?
    Thank you in advacne, Tina

  219. Hi, I am very interested in purchasing raw milk - Tahlee could you please email me the details of your dairy? Address is

    If anyone else has info on raw cow, sheep or goat milk please let me know! I had my first taste of Aphrodite raw milk recently and it was incredible. I would like to get it straight from the farm myself as I don’t like plastic packaging + the milk distribution process.

    Thanks in advance.

  220. 223. Roger Paul
    Dec 21st, 2009 at 4:15 pm

    Hi Lauren Morris
    I have just moved from DFarwin to Adelaide and used to use Cleopatras milks wash.
    Since coming to Adelaide my skin has gone horrible and I am chasing some body wash - whwre do we get Cleopatras from in Adelaide??? (or any other brand)

  221. A question re pasturisation
    We are living in China and (for obvious reasons) I am really not keen to use local shop-bought milk and so have been paying a huge amount for imported NZ milk. I have recently been offered the option of getting some real milk direct from a local farmer (and therefore I am assured, not likely to have had contaminants such as melamine added!) It is not a big commercial herd, but rather a small farmer. However I cannot easily view the set up myself, so I am not comfortable to drink the milk without pasturising it in some manner. Do you know whether heating up to 70 degrees loses less of the goodness than heating to 100 degrees? (I have read that the former is considered satisfactory for killing the bugs if done for 15 seconds)

  222. 225. Amanda Myhill
    Feb 9th, 2010 at 3:55 pm

    I have been searching for a retailer of raw milk in Sydney’s west for six months and I’ve just found a supplier almost at my door! Their name is Abundant Organics at Emu Plains and they deliver it all over Sydney. You do have to order it in but they seem to have it each week that I’ve been down there.

  223. 226. melissa magilton
    Feb 11th, 2010 at 2:39 pm

    I read with great amusement about Jersey Milk, Holstein Friesian milk etc…..

    I am a dairy farmer in Timboon Victoria, we are not allowed to supply raw milk to the public, part of our dairy licence (all dairy farmers in Victoria)

    My husband drinks heaps of unpasterised milk & has for all his 43 years & has no ill affects from it….

    We currently milk predominately Holstein Friesian cows (black & white) the farm used to have an all Jersey herd (lil golden cows) & also Brown swiss….the components, which is the % of butterfat & protein in the milk is what we get paid for not the litres produced, & depending on the diet of ANY breed of cow we have found they all produce good, healthy milk with great components (butterfat & protein)…

    If anyone knows how we can supply milk to the general public without falling foul of our licence we will happily supply anyone with clean cows milk…..Yes its better than the “vat wash” you buy in the supermarkets!

  224. If you are looking for unpasteurised milk in Canberra, the ‘Cleopatra’s’ brand is available at a place in Griffith named Mountain Creek Wholefoods. It costs $7.60 for two litres.

  225. Hi Nessa,
    I’m interested in buying your raw ewes milk and raw ewes milk cream. I understand you are in Goulburn. I am in Canberra every Monday and Tuesday and live in Sydney the rest of the time. I’m not a retailer, just want the stuff for home so it would not be huge amounts at a time. Is this do-able?
    Cheers, Tomás. Email:

  226. Deb (Dec 31st, 2009 ,
    Raw milk has it’s own in-built protective mechanisms; no need to pasteurize it, that defeats the purpose. Even if the dairy is a bit ‘dirty’, the milk will be better than pasteurised/homogenised milk. Just need to find out what the cow are fed (grass/grain), & any antibiotics used, etc.

  227. If there is any question of the grass fed or grain fed, I know the gentleman who is the man behind Cleopatra Bath Milk and you can be sure this is a man of integrity and a very healthy man as well considering his age. He has assured me that all his cattle are grass fed from virgin organic pastures.
    I have been drinking his milk for about 3 months and completely cured from all my previous ailments and on top of that have put on 5 kilo’s in muscle. He is at the Windsor market in Brisbane every Sunday without fail and a truck full of beautiful real “Necter of the Gods”. If you go there you can stand back and watch all the mothers buying his product for their children with complete confidence and he has been doing this for many years with no complaints. Mind you its strictly for bathing in.

  228. Hi Melissa
    I would be interested in purchasing some of your raw cows milk - do you come to Melbourne at all? Let me know,

  229. 232. Gordon Gevell
    Apr 12th, 2010 at 12:11 pm

    Reading the comments here it seems that some of you are drinking the Bath Milk. I’ve been bathing in it with no appreciable improvement in my health. Should I be drinking it instead?
    Does the farmer/producer know you drink it?

  230. I am trying to find out where I can obtain raw milk. I live at Pambula Beach, 30 minutes from the dairy town of Bega and can’t get raw milk!!!! How ironic. The website realmilk seems to have been temporarily unavailable for quite a while, does anyone know why? I have the inspiring book Nourishing Traditions by Sally Fallon and have been trying to access raw milk. We really need to get something happening here, where we have the right to purchase this food, unprocessed. I think there are one or two places in America, Canada and the UK where people can get their supply of raw milk. Australia should do the same. I feel very strongly about this!

  231. 234. CONOR BRADY
    Apr 22nd, 2010 at 5:46 am

    I’m interested in making butter from Raw Sheeps milk (as I cannot even tolerate raw cow’s milk butter), is the proess he same as for making cow’s milk butter?

  232. Hello Patrick,

    I read your comment posted on March 22, 2010. I would like to know the gentleman who is behind “Cleopatra’s Bath Milk”, as my mother and I are looking for a supplier on the Atherton Tablelands, North Queensland.

    Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

    Kind Regards,

  233. Hello Patrick,

    I forgot to include my reply e-mail address to my posting above:

    Thank you,

  234. Sorry to come barging in on the discussion (which I’ve found incredibly interesting), just wanting to contribute that Schulz Organic sells organic bath milk, it’s available at Friends of the Earth (Smith St, Collingwood) and they’ve got a stall at the fabulous farmers market at Abbotsford Convent & The Collingwood Childrens’ Farm (2nd & 4th Saturday of the month), for the Melbournites out there :)

  235. I work in a chemist on the gold coast and we have been selling cleopatra’s milk for years but have recently had authorities crack down even harder on the laws by making us have a database of all customers who buy the milk. The customers also have to leave us all their contact details and sign a form declaring that they only use the milk for cosmetic purposes. I am discusted with these laws…… Absolutely rediculus!!!! Thought I would just let u all know that these are now the new laws surrounding the selling of raw milk.

  236. Hi there, we’re new to Syd and finding it difficult to get our hands on some Cleo’s milk. Unfortunately Amanda, Abundant Organics won’t be taking any new orders til Spring because of the change of season and i’ve also tried Organic Food Markets but no luck there either. We depend on this milk solely for our son who has a nasty bowel disorder and has taken a turn for the worst…if anyone can help plse email us @ Thankyou!

  237. 240. colleen knol
    Jul 4th, 2010 at 1:52 pm

    Hi All, I’m from Canada and came across this website looking for the health benefits of raw milk. It is illegal to sell raw milk to the public in this country, too, but my sister-in-law found a way around that law……..she bought a share in a cow! Can you do that in Australia? We’re going to go *halfers* on that cow. A 2 litre jar is $7.00 compared to regular organic milk at about $5.00 for 2 litres, so not that expensive!

  238. Hi there everyone
    We sell organic raw milk cheese at the organic markets in Sydney. We are at Riverside Market in Hunters Hill every Saturday and Frenchs Forest Market every Sunday. We may be away this week but generally we are there every week. The raw milk cheese is so yummy and people love it. Come and try it! Or email me at if you want to order from me directly.

  239. does anyone out there where I can buy raw milk, I live in Washington Dc metropolitian area. Please let me know

  240. Does anyone out there know where I can buy raw milk. Please let me know

  241. I am a dairy farmer from northern Victoria and am looking to start selling our Raw milk purely as bath milk of course and am wondering how to get started. If anyone can help me. I have spoken to Swampy from Swampy’s bath milk and it just seems so easy. Can anyone give me any info. on getting started?

  242. Hi,
    I seem to be asking the same question that a lot of people are. Where on the North Shore of Sydney can I get Cleo’s milk. I have moved from the Eastern Suburbs to Chatswood and have gone to a number of the places listed in older posts on here to discover that they no longer sell Cleos milk. Can you please tell me where I can get it, be it either permanent store or farmers markets.
    Thanks for your help.

  243. I have a dairy,and milk jeresy cows and produce clean a grade milk and we are paid a pittance at the factory and I am sick of of and if anyone wish s to buy milk it is for sale and i can arrange delivery to sydney/canberra one day per week in one liter glass srew top bottles which can be returned the next week for a refund. Product would be delivered via a refrigerated unit and the price is $3.80 per liter but i would need at least 400 liters per trip to make it worth while so get your friends to gether and start some thing happening. I can supply factory recipes to show the butterfat/protein levels and no pesticide levels and ebl free so if you wish to bath /swim in it i produce approx 1500liters per day all year round as long as i get my money you can do with it what u want!!!
    Contact me via email ;

  244. I started my baby on this last week and it’s improved her digestion. I am still nervous about the whole listeria debate and am finding myself hiding it from my family.

    I havea few questions……..

    1) Where can you get it in Perth (except Peaches- so far for me)
    2) If bubs does not drink it all in her bottle (she’s been wasting a bit and it’s not cheap!), can I use that (which has been warmed) about an hour later in her brekkie? Should I refrigerate that, or cook her porridge straight away with that milk and then re-heat the porridge when she’s ready for brekkie?
    I might sound paranoid but I just want to ‘handle with care’
    3) Is it ok to be out of the fridge for 30 mins or so on way home from shops


  1. 1 Carnival of Nourishment » Carnival of Nourishment: 10th Edition Pingback on Feb 6th, 2008 at 8:29 pm
  2. 2 Raw Milk & Cheese - please act now! « SOLE Mama Pingback on Aug 21st, 2008 at 8:38 pm
  3. 3 TWAWKI » Raw Milk Pingback on May 1st, 2010 at 10:57 am
  4. 4 raw milk versus pasteurized milk, skim milk, full fat milk, low fat milk Pingback on Jul 10th, 2010 at 11:02 am

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