Comments on: What’s Real?

By: Susanne Skates

Susanne Skates — Mon, 09 Jul 2007 23:30:22 +0000

Dear Filippa and Rebecca,

I first became interested in nutrition in the early 70’s when I became a mother, so I have built on this early study over the years and tried many theories. I will try to find the rat study but am not hopeful I still have the extract. As I mentioned I feel we teach best by example and a relaxed approach, if we can do our best most of the time, 90% I feel is a good effort.I never had trouble with my children and food choices. My husband loves to cook and was brought up on a traditional Irish diet, so he loves organ meats, raw milk and butter (I did not) he always cooked breakfast usually organ meats and my children would help assembling ingredients and learnt to cook at a early age.
From my training in nursing I know western medicine and popular nutrition is not the answer.I studied natural medicine later and nutrition from a holistic point of view. I could not sit through a traditional nutrition lecture either. I shout back comments when watching TV programs on nutrition and get upset as what is reported on popular publications. However I keep reading and learning, the Western Price approach is simple, proven, easy to follow and the food choices enjoyable to eat. I live nutrition, it keeps me well and happy. Stay relaxed, lead by example, keep experimenting and enjoy the adventure.

By: Henriette

Henriette — Thu, 05 Jul 2007 09:10:36 +0000

It gets into you skin does it not ?
- eating real food :-D
and when you try the old crappy favourites you think what ! did I ever enjoy this?

By: Rebecca

Rebecca — Thu, 05 Jul 2007 01:26:37 +0000

Dear Henriette,
Yes it is sad when all your hard work goes down the drain once you leave a family. Changing peoples conceptions of adopting a new life style of eating whole foods successfully will always come down to ‘behaviour modification’. It is one of the hardest things to change. People of today want instant gratification for whatever it is they do. You can tell someone how bad something is for them but if they don’t have an instant negative reaction from doing something or consuming that bad food…people won’t change. To make change or to make a person change a behaviour they themselves need some type of leverage that gives a cause or reason to change.
I also believe that it all comes down to what you are use to as well. My husband is a perfect example…before he met me he ate crap food and has admitted he did not pay much attention and did not know how food can have such a big impact on health. In January I was put on a strict Candida diet. I could only eat protein, eggs, butter, and salad. So less choice was in the house and at dinner he had to eat what I ate because we weren’t cooking two meals and he was supporting me. Now he says he prefers our new way of eating and makes loads of salads with gourmet leaves and we eat copious amounts of vegetables. He loves that I said he can eat as much butter as he wants. He is going to a friends wedding in New York in a couple of weeks and he said something that really surprised me but impressed me. He said, “I hope they don’t eat crap food where I am staying. I don’t like it anymore.” Nutritious food and the body speaks for itself doesn’t it!

By: Henriette

Henriette — Wed, 04 Jul 2007 12:34:13 +0000

Rebecca I agree fully about kids and foods and nannies.
I worked as a nanny in Ireland for 2 years - I was really put out when I realised that kids ate alone- and how much fast food they ate.So differnt from Denmark.
I stayed with 2 different families and in both places I decide to cook and eat with the kids.

The last place had a small 4 year old with so many problems with food; she used food as a presure on her parents - had lots of tantrums wouldnÂ´t sleep etc -and she survived on pizzaslices, orangejuice in a BOTTLE and chocolate.
When I came I decide to serve real food every 3 hours so she wouldnÂ´t have any moodswings.
After a week she was a different girl- we cooked together- she helped me shop- and her parent was amazed how much a nicer child she was and how much food she would eat.Her skin got better- she would sleep all might and not the usual 6 hours !When I left both her babybrother and her was balnced kids who would eat lots of differnt foos- but I know they got back to the bad habits when they got a new nanny who served….cXXXXX food !

After my experience with theese kids I decided that if I ever had babies I would never make a hazzle out of food, I would involve my children and show them that food is fun and wonderful.
Well I have got a 12- almost 13 yo now.- I wont say she is perfect, but she does make good choises 97 % of the time and that is good enough.
I donÂ´t keep food in my house that I wont let her eat
- but I know that she for a very short period a year ago chose to use her pocket money on lousy candy and chips. Now she uses them on real high quality chocolate 70 % and nuts and she does not mind that her friends think she is weird or has strange taste.

By: Rebecca

Rebecca — Wed, 04 Jul 2007 11:29:34 +0000

Dear Susanne,
I noticed you are a Clinical Nutritionist. A few months ago I was considering choosing nutrition based electives for my degree but have had second thoughts on this since discovering that the theory they preach at Uni is not what I believe in now. I was curious about what your thoughts are about your training compared to what you seem to believe in in regards to Traditional diets. I don’t think I could even bare the thought of sitting in a classroom being instructed about ‘politically correct’ nutrition.
kind regards
Rebecca

By: Rebecca

Rebecca — Wed, 04 Jul 2007 01:34:49 +0000

I do not have children but have worked in Child Care for 12 years and was a Full-time International Nanny for 7 of those yrs for children under 6 yrs old. I always cooked wholesome food from scratch. I love to cook so was always creative with the food. I believe children are the world’s best imitators therefore I always sat and ate with the children. I am a big believer that meal times should be an event. I have a scenario…you (an adult) are out and are hungry. You say to your friend, “Do you want to have something to eat?” Your friend says “No.” Then you think to yourself, “Oh, I won’t then either. I don’t want to eat by myself if my friend is not eating.” This is true for mealtimes with children. How many times do you see carers or parents sit their children down at the ‘little’ table and chairs or at the table to eat their dinner on their own because it is ‘too early’ for the adults to eat. How do you expect a child to eat if you are not eating with them? I had discovered and proven this theory many times. When I would start work with new families I consistently found that the Nanny or parents did not eat with the children. I was told that the children did not have great diets or appetites. In about two weeks I could turn these children’s diet around. Firstly, I sat with them every meal time and we each had our own plates with the same food. We had funny conversations, we discussed what special properties our carrots and beans etc had. We talked about eating trees (brocolli)and how funny that was and I was very animated at the beginning to excite the children about their food. The parents of these families were astounded at the increase in food consumption by their children and one of the boys declared to his parents one week-end that brocolli was his favourite food. The parents said, “I don’t know what you are doing but keep it up.” I believe moderation is key and also I believe children are great little critics and we should not underestimate their intelligence. I always discussed with children why particular foods are not good for us. I would explain to them in child friendly terms. Grown-ups would be surprised how much more co-operative children can be if things are explained to them and not just told “NO”. Also it is very true that children who are involved in the preparation are more willing to eat. The boy who declared broccolli as his favourite food helped me make a pizza with grated vegetables. We discussed each vegetable as he was putting the toppings on. He ‘LOVED’ his pizza and it was the first time he had ever eaten any of these vegetables and he was so proud of himself when he told his parents that night. Needless to say his parents were beaming. One main reason I can attribute my success is I always started small. Little portions of new food on the plate at first, which I did not expect them to eat (just atleast not throw it off the plate) then the next night I would encourage atleast one bite. The next night it would be maybe two bites etc. Children love humour and if you involve it with food then the children will associate the food with fun. The saying goes…”It takes the introduction of 17 to 21 times for a child to be willing to try a new food.” And last but not least…positive attitude goes a long way with children (although patience can sometimes run thin, negative attitudes at the dinner table never get us very far)

By: Filippa

Filippa — Sun, 01 Jul 2007 11:13:57 +0000

Well, it’s time for me to add a little bit as I was the one that realised that Joanne’s article was written about Arun and that they had actually met each other at a party at my place and so the “backlash” began. (I’ve also posted this on Arun’s site http://www.theparentingpit.com )

Well… my “Weston Price” journey began nearly five years ago. I was a dedicated vegetarian and had had a low fat/low protein diet for 17 years (since the age of 14). By the time I went to Sally Fallon’s seminar (founding president of the WAP foundation http://www.westonaprice.org) I had some nagging health problems despite having always had what I thought was a very healthy diet. At the time, we were thinking about starting a family. Sally’s seminar was mind-blowing for me and by the end of the seminar, I felt that I had an obligation to my as yet unconceived child to prepare my body and to give that child the best possible start in life. So I gradually changed my diet and with the help of various online communities, my health was totally transformed. We went on to conceive and give birth to a very healthy child who almost never gets ill. He’s now 2.

Through meeting and getting to know Anne & Arun, we are very drawn to “radical” unschooling particularly after reading Ruth’s book (thanks Arun). Now, how do I marry the idea of non-regulation of food with my very strong ideas about nutrition and diet?

I do believe that children can be taught (helped) to listen to their bodies and that they can learn choose the right foods for them. There was a study done where babies with various health problems were presented with an array of foods. Day after day, the babies chose the foods that contained what they were deficient in. For example, one baby had rickets. this baby drank cod liver oil (by its own choice) day in and day out until its rickets were cured.

In one of the online communities that I frequented in the early days of this new food/health journey of mine, there was a woman called Heidi whose intelligence, knowledge and ability to share and explain her approach and experiences impressed me a lot. Heidi described how she hadn’t regulated and didn’t need to regulate her children’s diets. She made available an array of (healthy) foods which her children were free to choose from. This included things like cookies (her family was gluten intolerant so they were gluten free cookies). She didn’t dictate what or how much her daughter ate - in other words, she didn’t worry if her daughter didn’t want to eat breakfast or didn’t eat much on a particular day. At times it seemed like her daughter was overdosing on only one type of food but over time she observed that her daughter ate a balanced diet and a whole array of foods.

Heidi also didn’t restrict or ban her children from buying junk food. Occasionally her kids (probably out of curiosity or peer pressure) would go and buy candy, chips or soft drink but invariably, they would have a small amount and then the packet would be abandoned and unfinished. She also found her husband would do the same thing, he would buy a soft drink but wouldn’t finish it. It seemed that her family felt so nourished and satisified on the foods she was providing them that they had no desire or craving for junk foods. Her children commented how they felt fuller and more satisfied after her gluten free sourdough pizza than the ordinary stuff that they used to eat. (by the way, this doesn’t mean everyone needs to be gluten free - but for them it had serious impacts on Heidi’s health in particular).

Taiji (my 2 year old son) is only 2 so I can’t comment on whether it’s possible to raise him following Weston Price style dietary principles and unregulating his food but I am experimenting with this. What that means is I try to provide him with a variety of really good nourishing foods and give him free choice in what/when and how much he eats. That means that sometimes he only wants to eat cucumber and other times he’s only interested in licking all the butter off the bread. I try to follow what his body seems to be telling him. So if he isn’t interested in eating, I don’t worry or try to force him to eat. Sure enough, he’ll eat like a bird one day and then a day or so later will eat like a horse. Like Heidi, I also find that he eats a variety of foods but it won’t always be in one sitting - it’s over time.

My own experience is that when I try to control and restrict what I eat, I rebel against that and I start to desire the things I am restricting (e.g. chocolate) but if instead, I don’t “regulate” it and give in to that craving but then also address it by stepping up my nutrition, then the craving goes away. I think it’s also good at times to go off the rails and notice how my body and “I” don’t feel as good on less nourishing foods than when I’m eating a really nutritionally optimal diet. A little “poison” here and there is not going to be seriously detrimental to someone’s health and I think if children are raised in a family where a lot of healthy foods are readily available to them and that is coupled with healthy family dynamics and family eating time, they will naturally make the healthy choices.

An example Ruth makes in her “Parenting a free child” unschooling book is when her daughter is at a friend’s birthday party. She comes running up to her with a bowl of jelly (jello) and asks mum to hold it while she goes and has some broccoli first. (she was worried all the jello would be gone by the time she’d had her broccoli).

Yesterday, my son went to a friend’s birthday party. Apparently at the party, he ate all the cucumber out of the salad first and then started demanding cake along with the other kids. When he got his cake, he proceeded to lick all the icing off and left the cake untouched. “What was in the icing?” I asked my friend. “dark chocolate, cream, and butter” she replied. Well, he obviously knew what the best bit was!!

Filippa
p.s. in response to Susanne Skates post. She says that humans donâ€™t have the instinct for correct food choices but the study Iâ€™ve mentioned about the babies above refutes this. Although I would agree it is much weaker in humans than in animals. Also, I would like to know more about the rat study she mentions. Perhaps the â€œnutrient richâ€ food they were offered was not really a good alternative to the sugar as is much of the so-called â€œnutrient richâ€ foods in the modern diet.
see http://www.westonaprice.org

By: Louise

Louise — Tue, 26 Jun 2007 12:11:38 +0000

I am a mother of a 10 year old boy and 13 year girl. My son has had food issues all his life, but finally life is easy for him as long as he avoids pasteurised dairy and food additives. He self monitors now when he is away from home, but because he is still young and needs his mum he has not had to deal with all the pressures of being away from home for longer periods. My daughter however has no issues with food that would make her unwell after eating. BUT, now that all our food at home is based on the wisdom supplied by WAP and Sally Fallon, she does notice that processed foods make her â€˜feelâ€™ different, and that feeling is not pleasant, and her skin brakes out in pimples. She often speaks with concern for her friends and the lack of â€˜real foodâ€™ available to them. My kids donâ€™t have weight problems, donâ€™t seek food between meals, and miss home cooking when away from home. They donâ€™t crave the high sugar foods that once seemed so important, and know what full feels like. My daughter loves chocolate so occasionally for dessert I might add cocoa powder to the custard (made with raw milk, egg yolks, vanilla, maple syrup and arrowroot) but whereas before she could eat chocolate from dawn til dusk now she would have just a little. I donâ€™t tell my daughter not to eat specific foods when she is away from home, she craves good nourishing food and does not find mainstream foods overly pleasant.
Breakfast is a very important in our family and we try to sit together most mornings, with Dad, before work and school separates us. Every second day is porridge (soaked overnight in water, salt and whey.) On the other days we feast on Pancakes (with the spelt soaked overnight) or French toast made with beautiful sour dough bread, or raw milk smoothies. The porridge, pancakes and French toast are always served with good quality cream, butter, maple syrup and raw honey on the table, I love fresh lemon or lime with my pancakes too - yum! For emergencies where someone has to leave early I have made a lovely breakfast cereal, with a recipe that a member of WAP created, or sour dough toast with beautiful Gympie butter and homemade apricot butter (Sally Fallon thank-you). My point of tell this is that our family loves to share food together and to celebrate our bounty; it is even more special when Nanna is with us occasionally on weekends. It is when we talk and share and it is wonderful. Food is mistreated in todayâ€™s society it is disrespected and undervalued, having to plan ahead to make pancakes is not annoying it is exciting, the kids generally ask when they are going to bed what will breakfast be the following day. Good food gives a rhythm to your day, and brings a family closer. We are blessed!

By: Susanne Skates

Susanne Skates — Tue, 26 Jun 2007 04:49:07 +0000

Joanne I totally support your view and the suggestions you made for suitable foods are great.
I do support the un-schooling theory in part but have issues with the interpretation. We teach are children from the moment of birth, we smile and encourage them to smile back and later repeat our words. We would not dream of depriving our children of social and emotional support, or of the opportunity to reach their full potential as an informed and caring adult, able to support themselves in an ever changing world. We do not expect a teenager to act responsibly all of a sudden at eighteen. We guide them constantly through experiences so taking responsibility at whatever age comes naturally. Probably the best way we as parents teach is by example.
When it comes to making good food choices parents are in the most influential position, especially in the younger years and we can do this naturally by encouraging children to participate in the selection, preparation and cooking of wholesome food. In so doing parents not only teach how to prepare food but also impart planning and organisation, foster creativity and problem solving, cooperation and social skills as well as education in physical, mental and emotional health.
Unfortunately humans are not born with an instinct for correct food choices as many animals are, so this skill is learnt by observation and participation. Although, experiments with rats (adult) in the 60â€™s found that the rats when offered a choice between nutrient rich food and sugar ate the sugar and died early. All primitive cultures placed nourishing their children as a top priority, often reserving the most nutritious food for them or pregnant and nursing mothers as they recognised the importance of a good start in life meant a better chance of survival, a healthy happy life. This can be done without bribery and disharmony by adopting a relaxed attitude and simple boundaries.
There is not a childhood illness from stomach ache to emotional disturbance (hyperactivity, behaviour and learning difficulties) that does not have a nutritional element or is totally nutritionally related.
The 2 to 12 age group need a lot of nourishing foods to provide the nutrients for growth and development, while physical growth is slower than the first 2 years of life mental and emotional growth is rapid. What better time could there be to instruct in good eating habits and educate the importance of nutritional food as well as the adverse effects of refined sugars and flours, soft drinks, fast and fried foods.
The 2-5 year old often eat less and we often over estimate our childrenâ€™s need for food so all the more reason to avoid empty calories and to make sure food eaten is nutrient rich to support optimum growth. They usually prefer raw foods and love finger foods, eating when hungry, so serve small meals often. Try growing veggies, I never saw a fully grown carrots when my children were young they pulled them up and ate them straight from the garden with the stalk still attached and this was a fun activity when a friend came over to play. Children also love collecting eggs, so keeping a few chickens in the yard provides you with a nutrient rich package which is easy to prepare and eat.
Reaching agreements regarding food choices is important and then stacking the fridge and pantry with these wholesome choices, not forgetting to include fruit, vegetables, grains and protein foods. Children enjoy simple foods and letting them assist with the preparation of their school lunch gives them more identity with the pleasure of eating it.
All ages have special nutrient needs being aware and catering to these needs makes for healthy and happy children
Catering for ages 5 to 12 gets tougher as likes and dislikes limit food choices, other influences appear, TV, other children etc. and the rebellion sets in. However children of this age often become more cooperative and helpful and seek acceptance and so may want to eat well. What better time to introduce assisting in the kitchen.
After 12 years is a trying time in terms of nutrition, with peer pressure, the rebellious nature, easy access to junk foods, all at a time when great demands are made on the body in terms of physical growth and physiological changes due to the sex hormones. The needs for nutrients particularly calcium, iron, vitamin D, zinc and manganese not only increase but are vital. Knowledge that good food choices are responsible for good looking skin, general good looks plus good teeth is a benefit. Parents of teenagers often loose their status in terms of worldly knowledge, so all the more reason to have instilled correct life and social skills as well as food choices before this age. My teenagers become vegetarians, while this was of concern to me I supported their ideological reasons and we negotiated nutrient rich foods to add to their diet. They combined grains and lentils to provide the amino acids usually supplied from meat and both chose to add some animal foods such as butter, cheese and eggs.
Even with my nutritional knowledge walking past the bakery is often difficult, especially when I am hungry and in a hurry.
Susanne Skates, trained nurse, Clinical Nutritionist.

By: Amanda Rose

Amanda Rose — Sun, 24 Jun 2007 23:17:44 +0000

This discussion reminds me of the first play group I attended with my son. The hostess had Saltine crackers. Eight of the children did not notice the crackers at all. Two of the children (including my son) absolutely stuffed themselves with crackers. They kept popping those salty, dry crackers into their mouths. They couldn’t speak. Of course, both of us moms were embarrassed about the behavior of our children. But I also knew that there were only two children in the room who never got to eat crackers.

We’ve had enough health issues in the family that have been affected by food that we still have food rules. We only get dessert if we eat the dinner. Of course, that dessert is healthy too and some day when my son discovers Little Debbie’s Snack Cakes, he will realize that there were even boundaries on the dessert in the household.

With all of the rules, we have a lot of discussions about “why” and “what’s healthy,” so much so that I get called on every glass of wine I drink. ;)

Amanda